MARIJUANA REGULATORY AGENCY PUBLIC HEARING  
February 12, 2020  
STATE OF MICHIGAN  
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS  
MARIJUANA REGULATORY AGENCY  
PUBLIC HEARING  
Jupiter Conference Room  
2407 North Grand River Avenue  
Lansing, Michigan  
Wednesday, February 12, 2020, 9:30 a.m.  
PRESENT:  
MR. ANDREW BRISBO  
MS. JESSICA FOX  
MR. JOSHUA GALICKI  
MS. KELLY KRONNER  
RECORDED BY:  
Marcy A. Klingshirn, CER 6924  
Certified Electronic Recorder  
Network Reporting Corporation  
Firm Registration Number 8151  
1-800-632-2720  
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MARIJUANA REGULATORY AGENCY PUBLIC HEARING  
February 12, 2020  
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TABLE OF CONTENTS  
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Welcome and Call to Order . . . . . . . . . . . .  
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Statement by Mr. Brisbo . . . . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Fox. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Kronner. . . . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Aaron Squeo. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Steve Linder . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Geoffrey Lawrence. . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Jason Palomba. . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Jerry Young. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Katherine Kreger . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Ashley Hubbard . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Robin Schneider. . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Tim Beck . . . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Cody Dekker. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Rick Thompson. . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Derryl Reed. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Devin Loker. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Jeff Ferro . . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Brandon Campbell . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Derek Dobies . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Miranda Burnham. . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Roma Thurin. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Kelly Young. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Allison Ireton . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Christina Montague . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Maryrose Angelo. . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Jeffrey Hank . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Aubrey Rose. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Josey Scoggin. . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Nico Pento . . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Marco Smith. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Brandon Massay . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Eric Foster. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Travis Klinger . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Matt Craven. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Nate Noel. . . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Kari Massay. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Andrea Hartdegen . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Matthew Abel . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Rebecca Colett . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Paul Samways . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Tom Farrell. . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Mr. Matt Ramirez . . . . . . . . . .  
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Adjournment . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  
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Lansing, Michigan  
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Wednesday, February 12, 2020 - 9:30 a.m.  
MS. KRONNER: I'm going to call this meeting to  
order at 9:30 a.m.  
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MR. BRISBO: Good morning, everyone. I'm Andrew  
Brisbo, the executive director of the Marijuana Regulatory  
Agency. I appreciate you all being here. Appreciate you  
all accommodating the unexpected disruption to what was a --  
what we thought was a well planned meeting and having to  
move locations. This meeting is being live streamed via the  
MRA Facebook page. Because of the constraints on the room  
and the number of people who are allowed to be in here, I  
would appreciate if after you've made your comments if you  
exit the building so we can get someone else to come in and  
make their comments. This will all be transcribed so we  
will not miss any comments and anything that's said at  
the -- during the course of the meeting will be available  
publicly after the fact as well, so you won't miss anything.  
But we do want to make sure everyone's given an opportunity.  
If there's anything you happen to miss, we will take written  
comments for I think a week, until the 17th, so you're free  
to submit additional comments in writing to the MRA after  
that.  
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To my right I have Kelly Kronner and Jessica Fox.  
They're going to be helping to coordinate the meeting. If  
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you haven't filled out a comment card, please do that just  
so we can call your name to make sure that we keep things  
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moving orderly. I think Jessica is going to announce the  
names. She'll announce the next speaker as well as the  
person that's in the queue after that just so we can keep  
moving through. And, again, we would appreciate it if after  
you've made your comments you could exit so we can get  
someone else in. That would be greatly appreciated. And  
I'm going to turn it over to Jessica. Thank you.  
MS. FOX: Good morning. This is a public hearing  
on the proposed administrative rules titled as follows:  
Marihuana Licenses - Rule Set 2019-067 LR; Marihuana  
Licensees - Rule Set 2019-068 LR; Marihuana Operations -  
Rule Set 2019-069 LR; Marihuana Sampling and Testing - Rule  
Set 2019-070 LR; Marihuana Infused and Edible Marihuana  
Products - Rule set 2019-071 LR; Marihuana Sale or  
Transfer - Rule Set 2019-072 LR; Marihuana Employees - Rule  
Set 2019-073 LR; Marihuana Hearings - Rule Set 2019-074 LR;  
Marihuana Disciplinary Proceedings - Rule Set 2019-075 LR;  
Industrial Hemp for Marihuana Businesses - Rule Set 2019-088  
LR; and Medical Marihuana Facilities - Rescinded - Rule Set  
2019-123 LR.  
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This hearing is being conducted pursuant to  
provisions required by the authority conferred on the  
Executive Director of the Agency authorized to promulgate  
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these rules based upon Section 206 of the Medical Marihuana  
Facilities Licensing Act, 2016 PA 281, MCL 333.27206,  
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Section 7 and Section 8 of the Michigan Regulation and  
Taxation of Marihuana Act, 2018 Initiated Law 1, MCL  
333.27957 and 333.27958, along with Executive Reorganization  
Order 2019-2, MCL 333.27001.  
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MS. KRONNER: This hearing was called to order at  
9:30 a.m., on February 12th, 2020. It was supposed to take  
place at the Williams Building, first floor auditorium, but  
we are at 2407 North Grand River in Lansing, Michigan. This  
hearing was published in three newspapers of general  
circulation, as well as the Michigan Register, published on  
February 1, 2020.  
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Please know that we are here today to receive your  
comments on the proposed rules. If you wish to speak,  
please fill out a comment card with your name and the rule  
number or citation that you are commenting on. When you  
come forward to speak, please state your name and the rule  
number or citation that you are commenting on so that this  
information may be transcribed in the hearing report.  
Particularity will help the staff review your comments in  
the transcript after today.  
Please try to limit your comments to three  
minutes. If you need more time, please consider submitting  
your comment to the e-mail address provided on the Notice.  
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Written comments may be submitted until Monday, February  
17th, 2020, at 5:00 p.m. Please remember that public  
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comment is an opportunity for members of the public to  
comment, not to obtain feedback, engage in dialogue, or  
receive answers from the Agency.  
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Again, please give the rule number and state your  
comments with particularity. Thank you.  
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MS. FOX: So at this time, we will begin with  
public comment. If you could please when you come to the  
microphone, say your name and spell your last name for our  
transcriptionist, that will help her out greatly. First  
will be Aaron Squeo, and Aaron will be followed by Steve  
Linder from Michigan Cannabis Manufacturers Association.  
AARON SQUEO  
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MR. AARON SQUEO: Hi. My name is Aaron Squeo.  
I'm speaking on Rule Set 2019-073 LR. Good morning. My  
name is Aaron Squeo and I currently reside in Clinton  
Township, Michigan. I have come here today to voice my  
support for a fair and stable recreational cannabis industry  
in Michigan. That's why I support a labor peace agreement  
in the regulations. Labor peace agreements make sure that  
workers have a safe environment to work in and workers who  
belong to a union are more likely to receive safety and  
technical --  
(Off the record interruption)  
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MR. AARON SQUEO: Do you want me to start over  
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again?  
MS. KRONNER: Sure.  
MR. AARON SQUEO: Okay. Good morning. My name is  
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Aaron Squeo and I currently reside in Clinton Township,  
Michigan. I have come here today to voice my opinion for a  
fair and stable recreational cannabis industry in Michigan.  
This is why I support a labor peace agreement in the  
regulations. Labor peace agreements will make sure that  
workers are safe and the products don't hurt people.  
Workers who belong to a union are more likely to be --  
receive safety and technical training and it reduces  
workplace accidents and improves worker -- product quality.  
My father currently receives benefits from medical marijuana  
and I have to be careful about some of the brownies I eat  
when I go to his house. I just want to make sure that the  
product he's eating and is consuming are safe as well.  
Thank you for your time.  
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MS. KRONNER: Thank you.  
MS. FOX: Steve Linder, from the Michigan Cannabis  
Manufacturers Association and after Mr. Linder will be  
Geoffrey Lawrence from the Reason Foundation.  
STEVE LINDER  
MR. STEVE LINDER: Good morning. My name is  
Steven Linder, L-i-n-d-e-r. I'm the executive director of  
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the Michigan Cannabis Manufacturers Association. The MCMA  
represents a number of the largest growers, processors, and  
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vertically integrated businesses in Michigan with almost  
half a billion dollars worth of investment and over 1,000  
employees. We are submitting our full review and comments  
on the rule set. I'm not here to talk about all of the  
rules today and we will discuss those with the Department.  
However, we are here today to voice our objection  
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to two of the rules contained in the rule set that if they  
are not amended will prohibit us from supporting the rule  
set at all. Those two rules are labor peace agreements and  
forced third-party sales. We don't believe that it's the  
role of the Department to use licensure as a hammer to force  
independent businesses into forming relationships with labor  
unions which will unalterably change and distort their  
workplaces. We're not opposed to labor unions, but if labor  
unions think that they have an opportunity, it is up to them  
to come and negotiate with each of the individual  
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businesses. It is not the role of the state to act as a  
brokerage agent for labor unions. We believe that it is a  
violation of the National Labor Relations Act to do so and  
we oppose this rule in its entirety.  
We are also here to voice our objection to forced  
third-party sales. It is the role of the Department to  
license and to regulate those businesses setting bars of  
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entry and making sure that standards are adhered to and  
controlling the supply chain is really not the role of  
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government, nor is it a stated role of the Department. A  
license to operate is not a license to succeed or make  
money. Businesses rise and fail based on many factors and  
distorting the system to determine that a business needs  
supply and that it's the system itself that doesn't provide  
the supply that will allow the Department to force private  
businesses who have made the investments successfully manage  
their businesses to sell to their competitors. This is not  
the role of government in our opinion and quite -- we oppose  
this rule in its entirety.  
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And just to voice how strongly we believe in  
opposing these rules, our association has already reached  
out to the legislature, to the Joint Committee on  
Administrative Rules, and made it clear that unless these  
two provisions are eliminated from the rule set, we will  
oppose the rule set in its entirety and lobby for the Joint  
Committee on Administrative Rules to not consider the rule  
set if these are contained. There are many things in the  
rules that we like and we'll be submitting those to you.  
There are things in the rules that probably need some  
tweaking and some negotiation, but these two are  
nonstarters. They are, quite frankly, lines in the sand for  
our association and we would encourage the agency to  
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eliminate these two provisions from the rule set and that we  
can get on with the business of supporting those rules that  
have a positive impact on the industry. Thank you.  
MS. KRONNER: Thank you.  
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MS. FOX: Geoffrey Lawrence from the Reason  
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Foundation to be followed by Jason Palomba. And as a  
reminder, please speak directly into the microphone so that  
you can be heard. Thank you.  
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GEOFFREY LAWRENCE  
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MR. GEOFFREY LAWRENCE: Geoffrey Lawrence,  
L-a-w-r-e-n-c-e, the Reason Foundation. I want to focus my  
comments specifically on Rule Set 2018-067 LR, specifically  
the requirement for a prospective licensee to enter a labor  
peace agreement. The Reason Foundation, our reading of this  
we see two primary legal obstacles here. First is that we  
believe this exceeds the statutory authority given to the  
Department and, secondly, we believe it violates federal  
labor law.  
As far as statutory authority, I think it's at  
best arguable that the Department's authority to issue  
qual- -- well, to determine qualifications that are directly  
and demonstrably related to the operation of a marijuana  
establishment includes the requirement for a labor peace  
agreement. I'll note from context that the statute makes no  
reference to terms like "labor peace agreement" or "labor  
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organization." So it seems, from our reading of that  
statute, it's not clear that there is statutory authority  
for this type of a new rule.  
Secondly, we believe that this requirement would  
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violate the National Labor Relations Act which reserves to  
the National Labor Relations Board the exclusive authority  
to regulate private sector labor relations. Of course,  
states have the authority to regulate those labor relations  
with state and local government employees, but in the  
private sector that is reserved to the NLRB, and this is an  
issue that has been adjudicated at length in federal courts.  
There are a number of cases I could point to, but  
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I'll point specifically to a case that was heard by the U.S.  
Supreme Court in 1987 called Golden State Transit Corp  
versus the City of Los Angeles. In this case, the court  
said the City of Los Angeles could not require this taxi cab  
company to enter into a labor peace agreement as a condition  
of being issued a license. They said that very clearly that  
this violated the authority given to the NLRB and that that  
was -- that was an exclusive authority to be exercised at  
the federal level. We see that as directly applicable to  
this proposed rule and believe that if the rule is -- in the  
future is challenged in federal court based on the series of  
precedents, which I can highlight further in written  
comments, we believe it will be overturned. Thank you.  
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MS. KRONNER: Thank you.  
MS. FOX: Jason Palomba followed by Marc Gazd.  
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Jason?  
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UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Who is it?  
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MS. FOX: Jason Palomba. And as a reminder,  
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please say and spell your last name for the record, please.  
MR. JASON PALOMBA: Okay.  
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MS. FOX: Thank you.  
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JASON PALOMBA  
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MR. JASON PALOMBA: My name is Jason Palomba,  
J-a-s-o-n P-a-l-o-m-b-a, and I'm a registered voter here in  
Ingham County and I am in support of the requirements for  
the labor peace -- of the requirement for labor peace  
agreement for licenses. The requirement will ensure that  
workers will be able to choose their own -- on their own  
whether or not they want to join a union free from pressure  
from their employer or from labor organizations. As being  
part of a union myself, I enjoy the guaranteed wage  
increases, guaranteed rest periods, and most importantly the  
safety that the union affords me. Having safety committees  
is an important issue for me above and beyond OSHA. We're  
able to ensure that we're able to make the work environment  
a safe place for everyone. And I really strongly feel that  
unions are an important part of the workplace.  
MS. FOX: Thank you.  
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MS. KRONNER: Thank you.  
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MS. FOX: Next will be Marc Gazd.  
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Who's after that?  
MS. FOX: Jerry Young.  
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JERRY YOUNG  
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MR. JERRY YOUNG: Good morning. Jerry Young,  
Y-o-u-n-g, commenting on Rule Set 2019-073 LR. Currently  
reside in Monroe, Michigan. Lifelong resident of Michigan.  
I've come here today to voice my support for a fair and  
stable cannabis recreational industry. I believe the labor  
peace agreements will make the cannabis industry more  
diverse. We need to ensure that women and people of color  
are able to participate in this growing cannabis industry.  
Access to representation will ensure that. Broad range of  
workers will benefit from the growing industry, especially  
workers from communities that have been disproportionately  
impacted by marijuana being illegal in the past. That's my  
comment. Thank you very much.  
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MS. KRONNER: Thank you.  
MS. FOX: Thank you. Next will be Katherine  
Kreger followed by Ashley Hubbard.  
KATHERINE KREGER  
MS. KATHERINE KREGER: Good morning. My name is  
Katherine Kreger, K-r-e-g-e-r, and I'm here for the Rule Set  
2019-073 LR. I am currently a Warren resident. I have come  
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here today to voice my support for a fair and stable  
recreational cannabis industry in Michigan. I support the  
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labor peace language and the regulations. I am 46 years old  
and I have lived in Michigan for the past 32 years. I have  
four children, three grandchildren. I have been a member of  
my union for the last five years and I know what a  
difference a union can make. In my previous job I did not  
have a union and they let me go after 11 years of service.  
The marijuana industry is going to create a lot of  
jobs for Michigan and labor peace agreements will ensure  
that those jobs are good jobs. I believe that all workers  
should be treated fairly and work in safe environments. The  
cannabis industry is going to create a lot of jobs and labor  
peace will ensure that workers know what to expect from the  
jobs and they get paid good and safety training, and they'll  
have the safety training that is needed. Thanks for the  
opportunity to comment.  
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MS. KRONNER: Thank you.  
MS. FOX: Ashley Hubbard, followed by Robin  
Schneider from the Michigan Cannabis Industry Association.  
ASHLEY HUBBARD  
MS. ASHLEY HUBBARD: Hello. My name is Ashley  
Hubbard, H-u-b-b-a-r-d, and I'm commenting on Rule Set  
2019-073 LR. As a resident of Detroit, Michigan, I have  
come here today to voice my support for a fair and stable  
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recreational cannabis industry in Michigan. I support the  
labor peace language in the regulations. I'm a lifelong  
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Michigander who has lived all of my 34 years here in  
Michigan. My husband and I are raising two children, an 8-  
year-old and a 3-year-old. I am not worried about my kids  
being around cannabis stores. They seem highly secure and  
not a danger to the community. I believe that all workers  
deserve to be treated fairly and work in safe environments.  
Labor peace agreements will make sure that the jobs in the  
marijuana industry are well paid, safe, and family  
sustaining jobs. Thank you for the opportunity to comment.  
MS. FOX: Thank you.  
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MS. KRONNER: Thank you.  
MS. FOX: Robin Schneider, from the Michigan  
Cannabis Industry Association followed by Tim Beck, Safer  
Michigan Coalition.  
ROBIN SCHNEIDER  
MS. ROBIN SCHNEIDER: I'm Robin Schneider,  
S-c-h-n-e-i-d-e-r. I'm the executive director of the  
Michigan Cannabis Industry Association. We're the state's  
largest cannabis association representing 200 legal and  
legitimate businesses. We serve as a unified voice for our  
members who are working hard to build this exciting new  
industry. Prior to my role leading the association I served  
as the finance director for the Coalition to Regulate  
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Marijuana Like Alcohol, the ballot committee that led MRTMA  
to victory. We would like to thank the agency for all the  
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time and hard work that it has put into implementing the  
will of the voters and promulgating this set of rules before  
us today.  
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When our association launched one year ago, our  
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very first founding principle was to advocate for a fair and  
equitable licensing program. The new agency has done an  
incredible job of streamlining that process and we are  
grateful. However, recently many of our members who are in  
the middle of their build outs have run into construction  
slowdowns, issues at the county and local level, and their  
prequalifications are expiring. We would like something  
added to the rules to give them more time without having to  
reapply when their prequalifications expire, as long as  
they're actively moving their construction projects along  
to, just to give them a little more time and keep our  
industry moving along.  
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Our members would like the ability to remediate  
and retest as many times as possible, so we want to make  
sure that they're able to -- whether it's more dry time that  
the product needs or the ability to use UV lighting or a  
willow machine, we want to give them as many opportunities  
as possible to get that product into the market. Our  
members would also like the ability to freeze and store  
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