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ยท6ยท ยท ยทPUBLIC HEARING ON PROPOSED ADMINISTRATIVE RULES  
ยท7ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท STATE OF MICHIGAN  
ยท8ยท ยท ยท DEPARTMENT OF LABOR AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY  
ยท9ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทWORKERS' DISABILITY COMPENSATION AGENCY  
10ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท held at  
11ยท ยทRoom L-150, 3026 W. Grand Boulevard, Cadillac Place  
12ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท Detroit, Michigan  
13ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทon  
14ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทWednesday, July 7, 2021  
15ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทat  
16ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท11:00 a.m.  
17ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท conducted by  
18ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท JACK A. NOLISH, DIRECTOR  
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ยท1ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทTABLE OF CONTENTS  
ยท2ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทPage  
ยท3ยท ยทIntroductionยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท 3  
ยท4ยท ยทWorkers' Compensation Health Careยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท5  
ยท5ยท ยท ยท Services (HCS)  
ยท6ยท ยทWorkers' Disability Compensation Appealsยท ยท ยท 7  
ยท7ยท ยท ยท Commission General Rule Set (WDCAC)  
ยท8ยท ยทWorkers' Disability Compensation Boardยท ยท ยท ยท 9  
ยท9ยท ยท ยท Of Magistrates General Rule Set (BOM)  
10ยท ยทWorkers' Disability Compensation Generalยท ยท ยท15  
11ยท ยท ยท Rule Set (WCA)  
12ยท ยทClosing of Hearingยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท23  
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ยท1ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Let the record reflect this  
ยท2ยท ยทis a public hearing on proposed administrative rules  
ยท3ยท ยทentitled Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity,  
ยท4ยท ยทWorkers' Disability Compensation Agency, Administrative  
ยท5ยท ยทRules for Workers' Compensation Healthcare Services.  
ยท6ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทI will note that we are entertaining four  
ยท7ยท ยทseparate rules hearings today and the first will be the  
ยท8ยท ยทHealthcare Services Rules.ยท This is as they were dually  
ยท9ยท ยทnoticed in publications of general distribution.  
10ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThis hearing is being conducted pursuant to  
11ยท ยทprovisions of Section 205 and 315 of the Workers'  
12ยท ยทDisability Compensation Act of 1969, also known as 1969  
13ยท ยทPA 317 or MCL 418.205 and 418.315; Section 33 of the  
14ยท ยทAdministrative Procedures Act of 1969 known as 1969  
15ยท ยทPublic Act 306, MCL 24.233, and Executive Reorganization  
16ยท ยทOrder Numbers 1982-2, 1986-3, 1990-1, 1996-2, 2003-1,  
17ยท ยท2011-4, 2019-13, MCL 18.24, 418.1, 418.2, 445.2001;  
18ยท ยท445.2011, 445.2030, and 125.1998.  
19ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThis hearing is being called to order at  
20ยท ยท11:05 a.m. on July 7th, 2021, at Room L-150, Cadillac  
21ยท ยทPlace, 3026 W. Grand Boulevard in Detroit, Michigan.  
22ยท ยทThis hearing was published in three newspapers of  
23ยท ยทgeneral circulation as well as the Michigan Register,  
24ยท ยทIssue Number 11-2021 published on July 1st, 2021.  
25ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทI am Jack Nolish.ยท I am the Director of the  
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ยท1ยท ยทWorkers Compensation Agency and I will be facilitating  
ยท2ยท ยทthe hearing today.  
ยท3ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทPlease note that we are here today to receive  
ยท4ยท ยทyour comments on the proposed rules.ยท If you wish to  
ยท5ยท ยทspeak please make sure you have signed in and indicating  
ยท6ยท ยทyour willingness to speak.ยท We will call on speakers in  
ยท7ยท ยทthe order in which names are listed on the sign-in  
ยท8ยท ยทsheet.ยท When you come forward to speak, please identify  
ยท9ยท ยทyourself with your name, the organization you represent  
10ยท ยทand both your mailing and email addresses so this  
11ยท ยทinformation can be transcribed into the hearing report.  
12ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThere not being a large crowd at this hearing  
13ยท ยทI will not at this point impose any kind of time  
14ยท ยทrestrictions on those that might wish to present on the  
15ยท ยทrule sets.  
16ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทIf you have any additional comments to submit  
17ยท ยทin writing you may leave them at the registration desk  
18ยท ยทhere or submit them to our Department no later than the  
19ยท ยทclose of business today.  
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ยท1ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทWORKERS' COMPENSATION HEALTHCARE SERVICES  
ยท2ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท All right.ยท Is anyone here  
ยท3ยท ยทinterested in speaking for/against the Healthcare  
ยท4ยท ยทServices Rules.  
ยท5ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท(No response)  
ยท6ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทOkay.ยท We will wait a few minutes and then we  
ยท7ยท ยทwill close the record on the first part of the hearing  
ยท8ยท ยทso feel free to visit amongst yourself.  
ยท9ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท(A short recess was taken)  
10ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท I need to also mention that  
11ยท ยทin the Healthcare Services Rule, Rule 418.1 -- I'm  
12ยท ยทsorry, Rule 107, which is Rule 418.10107, Source  
13ยท ยทDocuments, there is an update in Paragraph H which is on  
14ยท ยทpage 3 of the ruleset.ยท There is a cross-reference to  
15ยท ยทofficial UB-04 Data Specifications Manual.ยท When these  
16ยท ยทrules were drafted we were relying on the 2021 edition.  
17ยท ยทThat has now been outdated and by the time these rules  
18ยท ยทare effective we will be relying on the 2022 version,  
19ยท ยทand, similarly, July 1st publication date of 2020 will  
20ยท ยทbe updated to July 1st, 2021.ยท And those changes will be  
21ยท ยทincorporated as part of the report to the Joint  
22ยท ยทCommittee on Administrative Rules.  
23ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทWe're on hold for the time being, then.  
24ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท (A short recess was taken)  
25ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท It is now 11:20.ยท I have  
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ยท1ยท ยทchecked the sign-in list.ยท No cards have been submitted.  
ยท2ยท ยทNo one has signed in to testify regarding the Healthcare  
ยท3ยท ยทRules.ยท Therefore, that portion of our hearing today is  
ยท4ยท ยทnow closed.ยท We will reconvene at 11:30 to do the Rules  
ยท5ยท ยทfor the Board of Magistrate.  
ยท6ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทI will note, however, that there was an error  
ยท7ยท ยทin one of the published notices that appeared in the Ann  
ยท8ยท ยทArbor newspaper and it listed all the rules to be heard  
ยท9ยท ยทat 12:30.ยท So if someone might have some interest in the  
10ยท ยทHealthcare Rules that shows up here at 12:30 I will  
11ยท ยทentertain discussion at that time.ยท I don't know if  
12ยท ยทanybody is interested in monitoring all of that, but  
13ยท ยทthat's how we're going to proceed.ยท That will also apply  
14ยท ยทto the other rulesets that will be called before the  
15ยท ยทGeneral Agency set at that time.  
16ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทSo having said that, we are now in recess  
17ยท ยทuntil 11:30.  
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ยท1ยท ยท ยท WORKERS' DISABILITY COMPENSATION APPEALS COMMISSION  
ยท2ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Good morning.ยท I'm Jack  
ยท3ยท ยทNolish, Director of the Workers' Compensation Agency.  
ยท4ยท ยทThe record is now open in the public hearing on the  
ยท5ยท ยทproposed Administrative Rules entitled Department of  
ยท6ยท ยทLabor and Economic Opportunity, Workers' Disability  
ยท7ยท ยทCompensation Appeals Commission General Ruleset (WDCAC).  
ยท8ยท ยทThis hearing is being conducted pursuant to provisions  
ยท9ยท ยทof Section 274 of 1969 PA 317, MCL 418.274, and  
10ยท ยทExecutive Reorganization Order Numbers 1996-2, 1993 --  
11ยท ยทexcuse me, 1999-3, 2002-1, 2003-1 and 2019-13, MCL  
12ยท ยท445.2001, 418.3, 445.2004, 445.2011 and 125.1998.  
13ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThis hearing is being called to order at  
14ยท ยท11:30 a.m. on July 7th in Room L-150, Cadillac Place,  
15ยท ยท3026 W. Grand Boulevard, Detroit.ยท This hearing was  
16ยท ยทpublished in three newspapers of general circulation, as  
17ยท ยทwell as the Michigan Register, Issue Number 11-2021,  
18ยท ยทpublished on July 1st, 2021.  
19ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทAt this point I'm calling for any public  
20ยท ยทcomment relative to the ruleset for the Appeals  
21ยท ยทCommission.ยท I do not have any cards signed in nor has  
22ยท ยทanybody signed in expressing a desire to speak, but if  
23ยท ยทthere is someone that wishes to do so please come  
24ยท ยทforward.  
25ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทAnd, again, as before, we will hold the record  
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ยท1ยท ยทopen.ยท And at this point you're free to wander around  
ยท2ยท ยทfor a few minutes.  
ยท3ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท(A short recess was taken)  
ยท4ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Recalling the matter of the  
ยท5ยท ยทWorkers Compensation Appeals Commission Rules.ยท Anybody  
ยท6ยท ยทinterested in speaking or making any presentations?  
ยท7ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทHaving checked the sign-in list and there's no  
ยท8ยท ยทname appearing there, we will consider the record closed  
ยท9ยท ยทon this matter.  
10ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทWe will reconvene at 12:00 o'clock to do the  
11ยท ยทmagistrate's rules, and we are in recess.  
12ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท(A short recess was taken)  
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ยท1ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท WORKERS' COMPENSATION BOARD OF MAGISTRATES  
ยท2ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท This is a public hearing on  
ยท3ยท ยทproposed Administrative Rules entitled Department of  
ยท4ยท ยทLabor and Economic Opportunity, Workers' Disability  
ยท5ยท ยทCompensation, Workers' Board of Magistrates General  
ยท6ยท ยทRuleset, also referred to as BOM.  
ยท7ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThis hearing is being conducted pursuant to  
ยท8ยท ยทthe provisions of Section 205 and 213 of the Workers'  
ยท9ยท ยทDisability Compensation Act of 1969, 1969 Public Act  
10ยท ยท317, and MCL 418.205 and 418.213, as well as Section 33  
11ยท ยทof the Administrative Procedures Act of 1969 being 1969  
12ยท ยทPublic Act 306, MCL 24.233, and Executive Reorganization  
13ยท ยทOrder Numbers 1996-2, 1999-3, 2002-1, 2003-1 and 2019-3  
14ยท ยทalso known as MCL 445.2001, 418.3445 -- excuse me,  
15ยท ยท418.3, 445.2004, 445.2011 and 125.1998.  
16ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThis hearing is being called to order at  
17ยท ยท12:00 p.m. on July 7th held at Room L-150, Cadillac  
18ยท ยทPlace, 3026 W. Grand Boulevard, Detroit.ยท This hearing  
19ยท ยทwas published in three newspapers of general circulation  
20ยท ยทas well as the Michigan Register, Issue 11-2021  
21ยท ยทpublished on July 1st, 2021.  
22ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทAs I indicated at the prior hearing we will  
23ยท ยทalso entertain discussions or comments on this ruleset  
24ยท ยทstarting with the 12:30 hearing as well.  
25ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทI have at this point two cards expressing an  
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ยท1ยท ยทinterest in speaking and in the order that they were  
ยท2ยท ยทsubmitted to me, first is Jayson Chizick indicated as  
ยท3ยท ยทspeaking in support.  
ยท4ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMR. CHIZICK:ยท Thank you very much, Mr. Nolish.  
ยท5ยท ยทI appreciate the opportunity to speak.  
ยท6ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทI am the Acting Section Chair for the Workers'  
ยท7ยท ยทCompensation Law Section of the State Bar of Michigan.  
ยท8ยท ยทOur former chairperson and three council members were  
ยท9ยท ยทinvited to participate in assisting with the drafting of  
10ยท ยทthese rules and were reporting back over a period of  
11ยท ยทmany months in support of the rule foundation process as  
12ยท ยทwell as the proposals that we ended up with here today.  
13ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทCouncil was involved in commentary, fortunate  
14ยท ยทto have the director consult, and update the progress  
15ยท ยทduring the drafting process.ยท The council has in a  
16ยท ยทbipartisan fashion endorsed the rules.ยท We believe that  
17ยท ยทthey are critical to the streamlining of the exchange of  
18ยท ยทinformation, evidence and practice management.ยท The  
19ยท ยทresult of these rules I believe and I believe speaking  
20ยท ยทon behalf of the Workers' Compensation Law Section  
21ยท ยทCouncil will increase efficiency, reduce costs for  
22ยท ยทbusiness and injured workers and their counsel.  
23ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทIn the circumstance where the State Bar is  
24ยท ยทconsulted and involved in putting together the rules we  
25ยท ยทare fortunate to be able to say that we have been heard  
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ยท1ยท ยทand, therefore, we do endorse the rules.  
ยท2ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทI would also note on a personal note that I  
ยท3ยท ยทI've reviewed the changes that were proposed by the MAJ  
ยท4ยท ยทand the self-insured representatives, and, again, on a  
ยท5ยท ยทpersonal note believe that these compromises represent  
ยท6ยท ยทthe reasonable effort to deal with certain matters in  
ยท7ยท ยทthe proposed rules.  
ยท8ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทAnd thank you for the consideration.  
ยท9ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Mr. Chizick, you indicated  
10ยท ยทthat you wish to also speak to the general rules?ยท Do  
11ยท ยทyou want this to be considered a comment on those as  
12ยท ยทwell or do you want to address them separately?  
13ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMR. CHIZICK:ยท Director Nolish, I would be  
14ยท ยทhappy if my comments were echoed in all respects for the  
15ยท ยทsecond set of rules.  
16ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท So noted.  
17ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMiss Drobnich.  
18ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. DROBNICH:ยท Good morning.ยท Dawn Drobnich on  
19ยท ยทbehalf of the Michigan Self-Insured Association.  
20ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMR. MacDONALD:ยท Good morning.ยท Robert  
21ยท ยทMacDonald, past president for the Michigan Association  
22ยท ยทfor Justice.  
23ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMR. WARSH:ยท Good morning.ยท Richard Warsh on  
24ยท ยทbehalf of Michigan Association of Justice.  
25ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. DROBNICH:ยท Director Nolish, we'd like to  
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ยท1ยท ยท-- we have submitted a 5-page letter that is in support  
ยท2ยท ยทof changes to the proposed Board of Administrative  
ยท3ยท ยทRules.ยท We are in support of the agency rules with these  
ยท4ยท ยทproposed changes outlined in the letter that has been  
ยท5ยท ยทprovided to the Agency.  
ยท6ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท And would you like those  
ยท7ยท ยทmade as part of the record?  
ยท8ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. DROBNICH:ยท Yes, please.  
ยท9ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Mr. MacDonald?  
10ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMR. MacDONALD:ยท Thank you, your Honor.  
11ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Do you concur?  
12ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMR. MacDONALD:ยท We concur, yes.  
13ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Mr. Warsh?  
14ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMR. WARSH:ยท Yes.ยท I would want to say that  
15ยท ยทthese changes are supported by both sides of the Bar,  
16ยท ยทwere done thoughtfully, and we are happy to announce  
17ยท ยทthat we have all signed off on them.  
18ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Thank you.ยท I appreciate all  
19ยท ยทthe effort that's gone into that.ยท And do you wish these  
20ยท ยทremarks to be considered for both the Board of  
21ยท ยทMagistrates and the Agency Rules?  
22ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. DROBNICH:ยท Yes, I do.ยท This is Dawn  
23ยท ยทDrobnich on behalf of Michigan Self-Insured.ยท Also note  
24ยท ยทthe letters in support of those rules with the changes  
25ยท ยทas suggested in a 4-page letter, it's a different  
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ยท1ยท ยทdocument.  
ยท2ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท So there are two documents?  
ยท3ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. DROBNICH:ยท Yes, there is.ยท The first one  
ยท4ยท ยทis the Board of Magistrates document.ยท It's 5 pages  
ยท5ยท ยทsigned by four parties.ยท Dan Cannon also signed it.  
ยท6ยท ยทHe's a defense attorney, and also an associate member of  
ยท7ยท ยทthe Michigan Self-Insured Association, could not be here  
ยท8ยท ยทtoday.ยท He signed off also on this as well.ยท So the  
ยท9ยท ยทBoard of Magistrate letter is 5 pages and the General  
10ยท ยทAgency Rules is a 4-page document.  
11ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท So noted.ยท We will make  
12ยท ยทthose part of the record.  
13ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMr. MacDonald?ยท Do you want to add anything?  
14ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMR. MacDONALD:ยท I concur with what Dawn said.  
15ยท ยทThank you.  
16ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Mr. Warsh?  
17ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMR. WARSH:ยท I concur as well.  
18ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Any additional comments that  
19ยท ยทI might not have cards for?  
20ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThank you for your comments.ยท They are so  
21ยท ยทnoted.ยท We will now leave the record open for a period  
22ยท ยทof time and we are in temporary recess.  
23ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท(A short recess was taken)  
24ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Recall the matter of the  
25ยท ยทWorkers' Compensation Appeals Commission Board of  
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ยท1ยท ยทMagistrate Rules.ยท There being no additional public  
ยท2ยท ยทcomment requested the record is closed.  
ยท3ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทOkay.ยท We will be recessed at 12:30 at which  
ยท4ยท ยทtime we'll take up the Agency Rules.  
ยท5ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThank you.  
ยท6ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท(A short recess was taken)  
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ยท1ยท ยท ยทWORKERS' DISABILITY COMPENSATION AGENCY GENERAL RULES  
ยท2ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Good morning.ยท This is the  
ยท3ยท ยทpublic hearing on proposed Administrative Rules entitled  
ยท4ยท ยทDepartment of Labor and Economic Opportunity, Workers'  
ยท5ยท ยทDisability Compensation General Ruleset also referred to  
ยท6ยท ยทas WCA.  
ยท7ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทI am Jack Nolish, the Director of the Workers'  
ยท8ยท ยทCompensation Agency and I am the one conducting this  
ยท9ยท ยทhearing.ยท This hearing is being conducted pursuant to  
10ยท ยทthe provisions of Section 205 of the Workers' Disability  
11ยท ยทCompensation Act of 1969, also known as the 1969 Public  
12ยท ยทAct 317 and MCL 418.205 and Executive Reorganization  
13ยท ยทOrder Number 1996-2, 1999-3, 2002-1, 2003-1 and 2019-3,  
14ยท ยทMCL 445.2001, 418.3, MCL 445.2001, 4.813, 445.2004,  
15ยท ยท445.2011 and 125.998.  
16ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThis hearing is being called to order at  
17ยท ยท12:30 p.m. on July 7th, 2021 at Room L-150, Cadillac  
18ยท ยทPlace, 3026 W. Grand Boulevard, Detroit, Michigan.ยท This  
19ยท ยทhearing was published in three newspapers in general  
20ยท ยทcirculation as well as the Michigan Register, Issue  
21ยท ยทNumber 11-2021 published on July 1st, 2021.  
22ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทWe will be taking comments on the General  
23ยท ยทRuleset and also due to an error in the publication in  
24ยท ยทthe Ann Arbor paper we will also take comments on all  
25ยท ยทfour of the rulesets, that being the Healthcare Services  
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ยท1ยท ยทRules, the Appeals Commission Rules, Board of Magistrate  
ยท2ยท ยทRules and these General Agency Rules.  
ยท3ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทI have received no indication that anyone  
ยท4ยท ยทwishes to speak to these rules.ยท We did at the prior  
ยท5ยท ยทhearing receive for the record some written comments  
ยท6ยท ยทfrom the Michigan Association of Justice in concurrence  
ยท7ยท ยทwith the Self-Insurance Association as well as support  
ยท8ยท ยทof the section council of the Workers' Compensation  
ยท9ยท ยทSection of the Michigan State Bar supporting the rules  
10ยท ยทin a document outlining some proposed changes that were  
11ยท ยทalso supported by those organizations.ยท We will, of  
12ยท ยทcourse, take those into consideration and incorporate  
13ยท ยทthem where possible.  
14ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทIs there anyone that wishes to speak regarding  
15ยท ยทany of the ruleset?  
16ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทHearing none, we will hold the record open  
17ยท ยทuntil 12:45.  
18ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท(A short recess was taken)  
19ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท We're going to reopen the  
20ยท ยทrecord on the General Rules and any other comments.  
21ยท ยทI've been advised that Alicia Birach, or Birach -- how  
22ยท ยทdo I pronounce this?  
23ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. BIRACH:ยท Birach.  
24ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Okay.ยท Would like to testify  
25ยท ยทin support.  
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ยท1ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. BIRACH:ยท Hello, is this -- am I supposed  
ยท2ยท ยทto come up here?  
ยท3ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMR. NOLISH:ยท That's fine.ยท You have to come a  
ยท4ยท ยทlittle closer to the microphone.  
ยท5ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. BIRACH:ยท See how I do with this.  
ยท6ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท That's perfect.  
ยท7ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. BIRACH:ยท Okay.ยท So overall we're  
ยท8ยท ยทtestifying in support.ยท There were just a few issues of  
ยท9ยท ยทclarification or concern, rather.  
10ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทUnder the Workers' Compensation Board of  
11ยท ยทMagistrate proposed rules, Rule 418.86(2)(b):ยท "A  
12ยท ยทmagistrate is disqualified when the magistrate cannot  
13ยท ยทimpartially hear a case.ยท Circumstances that warrant  
14ยท ยทdisqualification include but are not limited to  
15ยท ยทcircumstances where the magistrate is personally biased  
16ยท ยทor prejudiced for or against a party or attorney."  
17ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThere is some concern that this is overly  
18ยท ยทbroad and subjective and it should be narrowed and  
19ยท ยทprovide some objective criteria to prevent from form in  
20ยท ยทjudge shopping.  
21ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMoving on to the Workers' Compensation Board  
22ยท ยทof Magistrate Rule 418.91(1)(d)(ii) and (iii),  
23ยท ยทVocational Consultant Reports:ยท Any information in the  
24ยท ยทreport regarding remunerative employment must include  
25ยท ยทall of the following:ยท (ii) a job description outlining  
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ยท1ยท ยทall the functional requirements of the job; and, (iii),  
ยท2ยท ยทany other pertinent information necessary to apply for  
ยท3ยท ยทthe employment.  
ยท4ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทWe feel this is an undue burden on the  
ยท5ยท ยทemployer and impossible in most situations to obtain  
ยท6ยท ยทthis information.ยท It's not customary practice for job  
ยท7ยท ยทpostings to include all functional requirements of the  
ยท8ยท ยทjob.ยท Requiring the employer to obtain this information  
ยท9ยท ยทunduly shifts the burden of looking for work from the  
10ยท ยทclaimant to the employer, and the same with (iii), it is  
11ยท ยทoverly broad and again shifts the burden from the  
12ยท ยทclaimant to the employer.  
13ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทAlso, our other question is vocational  
14ยท ยทconsultants used in this rule, so 91(1)(d)(ii), the same  
15ยท ยทindividual who performs a forensic vocational evaluation  
16ยท ยทas defined under the general rules.ยท If so, we were  
17ยท ยทhoping to have some consistency in linking these two and  
18ยท ยทkind of clarifying that because I think from the  
19ยท ยทterminology when it comes to vocational consultant and  
20ยท ยทvocational forensic evaluation and who performs what  
21ยท ยทcould use a little bit of clarification.  
22ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMoving on to the General Rules, under the  
23ยท ยทDefinition Section Rule 1(j), Forensic Vocational  
24ยท ยทEvaluation, just a point of clarification, something to  
25ยท ยทconsider.ยท Is this the equivalent of Stokes for purposes  
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ยท1ยท ยทof determining residual wage earning capacity in a  
ยท2ยท ยทlitigated case for proofs at trial?ยท I think that's  
ยท3ยท ยทwhere we were going with this rule, but I didn't find it  
ยท4ยท ยทentirely clear.ยท So just a little clarification with  
ยท5ยท ยทthat.  
ยท6ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทRule 1(m), Vocational evaluation means the  
ยท7ยท ยทfirst step in the vocational rehabilitation process.ยท To  
ยท8ยท ยทclarify, this is not the Stokes evaluation done for  
ยท9ยท ยทlitigation purposes, that's only an evaluation that  
10ยท ยทoccurs when vocational rehabilitation is being  
11ยท ยทperformed.ยท So, again, just kind of clarification of  
12ยท ยทsome of that terminology I think is a little confusing  
13ยท ยทthere.  
14ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทAnd then individualized written rehabilitation  
15ยท ยทplan, those are only required under the new rules in a  
16ยท ยทvocational rehabilitation setting and not for purposes  
17ยท ยทof individual residual wage earning capacity at trial,  
18ยท ยทjust kind of -- I think that's pretty clear because it  
19ยท ยทtalks about how it only applies under the certain, you  
20ยท ยทknow, rule, I think section 318 or 319, but just a  
21ยท ยทlittle bit of clarification there.ยท I think when reading  
22ยท ยทit there was some gray area that leaved a little bit of  
23ยท ยทwant for interpretation.  
24ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThen Rule 408.41b, and I guess this is the  
25ยท ยทmost substantive one.ยท Notice of election to be excluded  
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ยท1ยท ยทas an employees under the Act.  
ยท2ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทIt talks about, (1), a notice of election to  
ยท3ยท ยทbe excluded under Section 161, and it says (4); and then  
ยท4ยท ยทthe next parentheses (5) of the Act shall be reported to  
ยท5ยท ยทthe agency on the WC-337.ยท Is it (4) and (5)?ยท And if it  
ยท6ยท ยทis (4) and (5) I think this is incorrect and it should  
ยท7ยท ยทbe just (5) and (4) should be removed.ยท Including (4) is  
ยท8ยท ยทinconsistent with the Act and the practices of the  
ยท9ยท ยทAgency.  
10ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThe same applies to 161(4) in Rule 408.41c.  
11ยท ยทAnd there was actually a case that Magistrate Housefield  
12ยท ยทrecently decided by the name of Reuber that kind of  
13ยท ยทaddresses this issue at length.ยท I can go over some of  
14ยท ยทit if anyone cares to hear me drone on.  
15ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทBut basically I have an entire write-up which  
16ยท ยทI'll just email you about why, but Section 161(4) is  
17ยท ยทexempting certain individuals who are officers of a  
18ยท ยทsmall corporation who have certain percentages of  
19ยท ยทshareholdership from a policy, and requiring them to  
20ยท ยทfill out this form to meet the requirements of (2) and  
21ยท ยท(3) would render 161(4) meaningless.ยท So it's entirely  
22ยท ยทinconsistent with the Act.  
23ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทAnd in the Reuber case Magistrate Housefield  
24ยท ยทgives a very eloquent summary why and also goes over how  
25ยท ยทyou can tell from the legislative history when the Act  
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ยท1ยท ยทwas amended the rules just were amended to keep up with  
ยท2ยท ยทthe amendment to the Act.ยท And, so, when the initial  
ยท3ยท ยทrule is put into place the language there at the time  
ยท4ยท ยทjust got to accept what is now Section 161(5) for  
ยท5ยท ยทpurposes of having to fill out the Form 337.ยท And we'll  
ยท6ยท ยทtype up a comment with a little explanation.  
ยท7ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท You're ahead of my ability  
ยท8ยท ยทto take notes.ยท I will admit that.  
ยท9ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. BIRACH:ยท Okay.ยท So I will type that one up  
10ยท ยทfor you.ยท But that's the most substantive one of the  
11ยท ยทthings I want to address here today.  
12ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทRule 408.44, Attorney Fees, we think this is  
13ยท ยทlong overdue.ยท An increase in the attorney fees  
14ยท ยทprovision is necessary because plaintiffs' counsel are  
15ยท ยทdoing five to ten times as much work on their claims in  
16ยท ยทorder to get them to the value the claims should have as  
17ยท ยทthey were doing a number of years ago.ยท There's been  
18ยท ยทchanges in the definition of disability and what  
19ยท ยทconstitutes personal injury and it has created more work  
20ยท ยทin establishing these proofs.ยท There hasn't been an  
21ยท ยทincrease in the attorney fees in a very long, long time  
22ยท ยทso we support this.  
23ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทRule 408.45a, Rule 408.45a, Vocational  
24ยท ยทRehabilitation, Paragraph 4:ยท Agency-approved vocational  
25ยท ยทrehabilitation providers.ยท We just want to clarify that  
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ยท1ยท ยทagency-approved vocational rehabilitation providers are  
ยท2ยท ยทonly required when performing vocational rehabilitation  
ยท3ยท ยทunder Rule 45a and not required for forensic vocational  
ยท4ยท ยทevaluations.ยท So that's a point of clarification that I  
ยท5ยท ยทthink needs to be addressed.ยท We're fine with it if it's  
ยท6ยท ยทfor purposes of just vocational evaluation, but what  
ยท7ยท ยทwe're saying is that we need an agency-approved  
ยท8ยท ยทvocational rehabilitation counselor to perform -- the  
ยท9ยท ยทevaluations for purposes of litigation and trial in  
10ยท ยทproving residual wage earning capacity, then we're  
11ยท ยทtalking a different story there.ยท And, so, that's  
12ยท ยทsomething we would like to see clarified and obviously  
13ยท ยทwould maintain a potential objection to it if that was  
14ยท ยทthe case.  
15ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทBut, again, going back to the language there I  
16ยท ยทjust think we need to clarify these rules what we're  
17ยท ยทcalling the vocational evaluations that we do for  
18ยท ยทpurposes of residual wage earning capacity at trial to  
19ยท ยทmake these a little clearer.  
20ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทAnd, finally, I know you guys would like to  
21ยท ยทhear me talk more but I'm coming to the end of the  
22ยท ยทroad --  
23ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Happy to hear you out as  
24ยท ยทlong as you want to go.  
25ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. BIRACH:ยท I know, I know.  
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ยท1ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThe requirement under 45a(4) that the  
ยท2ยท ยทvocational evaluation by the agency-approved provider  
ยท3ยท ยทtake place no later than 119 days from the employee's  
ยท4ยท ยทlast day of work or last day of employment or MMI,  
ยท5ยท ยทwhichever is later, we just wanted to make sure and I  
ยท6ยท ยทthink it reads this way but I think it should be a  
ยท7ยท ยทlittle clearer that only applies in cases where the  
ยท8ยท ยทemployee has been referred by the director to vocational  
ยท9ยท ยทrehabilitation and is not mandatory in all cases,  
10ยท ยทspecifically those in dispute.  
11ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThat's it.  
12ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Okay.ยท Are you going to  
13ยท ยทprovide those --  
14ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. BIRACH:ยท I would gladly give you an email  
15ยท ยทbefore 5:00 p.m. today.  
16ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท That would be fine.ยท Also  
17ยท ยทyou might want to refer to Messrs. MacDonald and Warsh,  
18ยท ยทtoo, they have done some work on this.  
19ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทMS. BIRACH:ยท Okay.ยท Sounds good.ยท Thanks,  
20ยท ยทDirector.  
21ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Well, we'll hold the record  
22ยท ยทopen for a few more minutes.  
23ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท (A short recess was taken)  
24ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทDIRECTOR NOLISH:ยท Calling the rulesets for  
25ยท ยทtoday's hearing.ยท Are there any additional comments?  
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ยท1ยท ยทAnybody wish to add anything to the record at this time?  
ยท2ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทHearing none and there being no additional  
ยท3ยท ยทsign-ins at the front desk the records for these  
ยท4ยท ยทhearings today are closed.ยท It's now, 1:02 p.m.  
ยท5ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทIf there's any additional comments regarding  
ยท6ยท ยทany proposed rules that you may wish to share, it can be  
ยท7ยท ยทdone in writing addressed to Dave Campbell at  
ยท8ยท ยทCampbelld5@Michigan.gov, by mail to the Workers'  
ยท9ยท ยทDisability Compensation Agency, 2501 Woodlake Circle,  
10ยท ยทOkemos, Michigan 48864, and the record for receipt of  
11ยท ยทdocuments in that regard will remain open until 5:00  
12ยท ยทp.m. today.  
13ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทThank you all for attending and the record is  
14ยท ยทclosed.  
15ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท(The hearing concluded at 1:03 p.m.)  
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ยท1ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER  
ยท2  
ยท3ยท STATE OF MICHIGANยท ยท ยท ยท )  
ยท4ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท) SS  
ยท5ยท COUNTY OF OAKLANDยท ยท ยท ยท )  
ยท6  
ยท7ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทI, Cynthia Ann Chyla, hereby certify that I  
ยท8ยท ยท ยท ยทreported stenographically the foregoing proceedings and  
ยท9ยท ยท ยท ยทtestimony under oath at the time and place hereinbefore  
10ยท ยท ยท ยทset forth; that thereafter the same was reduced to  
11ยท ยท ยท ยทcomputer transcription under my supervision; and that  
12ยท ยท ยท ยทthis is a full, true, complete and correct transcription  
13ยท ยท ยท ยทof said proceedings.  
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16ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท______________________________  
17ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทCynthia Ann Chyla, CSR 0092  
18ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทNotary Public  
19ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยท ยทOakland County, Michigan  
20ยท My Commission expires:ยท May 12, 2023  
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Hearing  
07/07/2021  
ยท1  
1:03 24:15  
408.41b 19:24  
408.41c 20:10  
408.44 21:12  
(
1st 3:24 5:19,20 7:18 9:21  
15:21  
(1) 20:2  
(2) 20:20  
408.45a 21:23  
418.1 3:17 5:11  
418.10107 5:12  
418.2 3:17  
2
(3) 20:21  
2002-1 7:11 9:13 15:13  
2003-1 3:16 7:11 9:13 15:13  
2011-4 3:17  
(4) 20:3,5,6,7  
(5) 20:4,5,6,7  
418.205 3:13 9:10 15:12  
418.213 9:10  
1
2019-13 3:17 7:11  
2019-3 9:13 15:13  
2020 5:19  
1(j) 18:23  
1(m) 19:6  
107 5:12  
418.274 7:9  
418.3 7:12 9:15 15:14  
418.315 3:13  
2021 3:20,24 5:16,20 7:18  
9:21 15:17,21  
11-2021 3:24 7:17 9:20 15:21  
119 23:3  
418.3445 9:14  
418.86(2)(b) 17:11  
418.91(1)(d)(ii) 17:22  
2022 5:18  
205 3:11 9:8 15:10  
213 9:8  
11:05 3:20  
11:20 5:25  
445.2001 3:17 7:12 9:14 15:14  
445.2004 7:12 9:15 15:14  
445.2011 3:18 7:12 9:15 15:15  
445.2030 3:18  
24.233 3:15 9:12  
2501 24:9  
11:30 6:4,17 7:14  
125.1998 3:18 7:12 9:15  
125.998 15:15  
274 7:9  
3
12:00 8:10 9:17  
12:30 6:9,10 9:24 14:3 15:17  
12:45 16:17  
45a 22:3  
45a(4) 23:1  
3 5:14  
48864 24:10  
3026 3:21 7:15 9:18 15:18  
306 3:15 9:12  
315 3:11  
161 20:3  
5
161(4) 20:10,16,21  
161(5) 21:4  
5 13:4,9  
317 3:13 7:9 9:10 15:12  
318 19:20  
18.24 3:17  
5-page 12:1  
5:00 23:15 24:11  
1969 3:12,14 7:9 9:9,11 15:11  
1982-2 3:16  
319 19:20  
33 3:13 9:10  
337 21:5  
7
1986-3 3:16  
1990-1 3:16  
7th 3:20 7:14 9:17 15:17  
4
1993 7:10  
9
1996-2 3:16 7:10 9:13 15:13  
1999-3 7:11 9:13 15:13  
1:02 24:4  
4 21:24  
91(1)(d)(ii) 18:14  
4-page 12:25 13:10  
4.813 15:14  
Hearing  
07/07/2021  
ยท2  
area 19:22  
24:8  
A
assisting 10:9  
associate 13:6  
Cannon 13:5  
a.m. 3:20 7:14  
ability 21:7  
accept 21:4  
capacity 19:1,17 22:10,18  
cards 6:1 7:21 9:25 13:19  
cares 20:14  
Association 11:19,21,24 13:7  
16:6,7  
attending 24:13  
Act 3:12,14,15 9:9,11,12  
case 17:13 19:2 20:11,23  
15:11,12 20:1,4,8,22,25 21:2  
attorney 13:6 17:16 21:12,13,  
22:14  
21  
Acting 10:6  
cases 23:7,9  
add 13:13 24:1  
Chair 10:6  
B
additional 4:16 13:18 14:1  
23:25 24:2,5  
chairperson 10:8  
checked 6:1 8:7  
Chizick 10:2,4 11:9,13  
Circle 24:9  
back 10:10 22:15  
Bar 10:7,23 12:15 16:9  
basically 20:15  
address 11:12 21:11  
addressed 22:5 24:7  
addresses 4:10 20:13  
behalf 10:20 11:19,24 12:23  
biased 17:15  
circulation 3:23 7:16 9:19  
15:20  
administrative 3:2,4,14 5:22  
7:5 9:3,11 12:2 15:3  
bipartisan 10:16  
circumstance 10:23  
circumstances 17:13,15  
claimant 18:10,12  
claims 21:15,16  
admit 21:8  
Birach 16:21,23 17:1,5,7 21:9  
22:25 23:14,19  
advised 16:21  
agency 3:4 4:1 6:15 7:3 12:3,  
5,21 13:10 14:4 15:1,8 16:2  
20:5,9 24:9  
bit 18:21 19:21,22  
Board 6:5 9:1,5 12:2,20 13:4,  
9,25 16:1 17:10,21  
clarification 17:9 18:21,24  
19:4,11,21 22:4  
agency-approved 21:24 22:1,  
7 23:2  
BOM 9:6  
clarified 22:12  
Boulevard 3:21 7:15 9:18  
15:18  
clarify 19:8 21:25 22:16  
clarifying 18:18  
clear 19:4,18  
ahead 21:7  
Alicia 16:21  
broad 17:18 18:11  
burden 18:4,9,11  
business 4:19 10:22  
amended 21:1  
amendment 21:2  
Ann 6:7 15:24  
announce 12:16  
clearer 22:19 23:7  
close 4:19 5:7  
C
closed 6:4 8:8 14:2 24:4,14  
closer 17:4  
Appeals 7:1,7,20 8:5 13:25  
16:1  
Cadillac 3:20 7:14 9:17 15:17  
call 4:6  
comment 7:20 11:11 14:2  
21:6  
appeared 6:7  
called 3:19 6:14 7:13 9:16  
15:16  
commentary 10:13  
appearing 8:8  
comments 4:4,16 9:23 11:14  
13:18,20 15:22,24 16:5,20  
23:25 24:5  
applies 19:19 20:10 23:7  
apply 6:13 18:2  
Arbor 6:8 15:24  
calling 7:19 22:17 23:24  
Campbell 24:7  
Campbelld5@michigan.gov  
Commission 7:1,7,21 8:5  
Hearing  
07/07/2021  
ยท3  
13:25 16:1  
documents 5:13 13:2 24:11  
drafted 5:16  
D
Committee 5:22  
Compensation 3:4,5,12 4:1  
5:1 7:1,3,7 8:5 9:1,5,9 10:7,20  
13:25 15:1,5,8,11 16:8 17:10,  
21 24:9  
Dan 13:5  
drafting 10:9,15  
Data 5:15  
Drobnich 11:17,18,25 12:8,22,  
23 13:3  
date 5:19  
drone 20:14  
dually 3:8  
due 15:23  
Dave 24:7  
compromises 11:5  
concern 17:9,17  
Dawn 11:18 12:22 13:14  
day 23:4  
concluded 24:15  
concur 12:11,12 13:14,17  
concurrence 16:6  
conducted 3:10 7:8 9:7 15:9  
conducting 15:8  
confusing 19:12  
days 23:3  
E
deal 11:6  
earning 19:1,17 22:10,18  
echoed 11:14  
decided 20:12  
defense 13:6  
defined 18:16  
definition 18:23 21:18  
Economic 3:3 7:6 9:4 15:4  
edition 5:16  
consideration 11:8 16:12  
considered 11:11 12:20  
consistency 18:17  
constitutes 21:19  
consult 10:14  
effective 5:18  
Department 3:3 4:18 7:5 9:3  
15:4  
efficiency 10:21  
effort 11:6 12:19  
election 19:25 20:2  
eloquent 20:24  
description 17:25  
desire 7:22  
desk 4:17 24:3  
consultant 17:23 18:19  
consultants 18:14  
consulted 10:24  
determining 19:1  
Detroit 3:21 7:15 9:18 15:18  
email 4:10 20:16 23:14  
employee 23:8  
director 3:1,25 5:2,10,25 7:2,3  
8:4 9:2 10:14 11:9,13,16,25  
12:6,9,11,13,18 13:2,11,16,  
18,24 15:2,7 16:19,24 17:6  
21:7 22:23 23:8,12,16,20,21,  
24  
employee's 23:3  
employees 20:1  
employer 18:5,8,10,12  
employment 17:24 18:3 23:4  
end 22:21  
corporation 20:18  
costs 10:21  
council 10:8,13,15,21 16:8  
counsel 10:22 21:14  
counselor 22:8  
disability 3:4,12 7:1,6 9:4,9  
ended 10:12  
15:1,5,10 21:18 24:9  
created 21:19  
endorse 11:1  
discussion 6:11  
criteria 17:19  
endorsed 10:16  
entertain 6:11 9:23  
entertaining 3:6  
entire 20:15  
discussions 9:23  
dispute 23:10  
critical 10:17  
cross-reference 5:14  
crowd 4:12  
disqualification 17:14  
disqualified 17:12  
distribution 3:9  
customary 18:6  
entitled 3:3 7:5 9:3 15:3  
equivalent 18:25  
document 13:1,4,10 16:10  
Hearing  
07/07/2021  
ยท4  
error 6:6 15:23  
impartially 17:13  
impose 4:13  
G
establishing 21:20  
evaluation 18:15,20,24 19:6,8, general 3:9,23 6:15 7:7,16 9:5, impossible 18:5  
9 22:6 23:2  
19 11:10 13:9 15:1,5,19,22  
16:2,20 18:16,22  
include 17:14,24 18:7  
Including 20:7  
evaluations 22:4,9,17  
evidence 10:18  
give 23:14  
inconsistent 20:8,22  
incorporate 16:12  
incorporated 5:21  
incorrect 20:6  
gladly 23:14  
exchange 10:17  
excluded 19:25 20:3  
excuse 7:11 9:14  
good 7:2 11:18,20,23 15:2  
23:19  
Grand 3:21 7:15 9:18 15:18  
gray 19:22  
Executive 3:15 7:10 9:12  
15:12  
increase 10:21 21:13,21  
indicating 4:5  
guess 19:24  
exempting 20:17  
explanation 21:6  
expressing 7:22 9:25  
indication 16:3  
guys 22:20  
individual 18:15 19:17  
individualized 19:14  
individuals 20:17  
H
F
happy 11:14 12:16 22:23  
information 4:11 10:18 17:23  
18:2,6,8  
Healthcare 3:5,8 5:1,3,11 6:2,  
10 15:25  
facilitating 4:1  
fashion 10:16  
initial 21:2  
hear 17:13 20:14 22:21,23  
heard 6:8 10:25  
feel 5:8 18:4  
injured 10:22  
fees 21:12,13,21  
fill 20:20 21:5  
injury 21:19  
hearing 3:2,10,19,22 4:2,11,  
12 5:7 6:3 7:4,8,13,15 9:2,7,  
16,18,22,24 15:3,9,16,19  
16:5,16 23:25 24:2,15  
interest 6:9 10:1  
interested 5:3 6:12 8:6  
interpretation 19:23  
invited 10:9  
finally 22:20  
find 19:3  
hearings 3:7 24:4  
held 9:17  
fine 17:3 22:5 23:16  
for/against 5:3  
forensic 18:15,20,23 22:3  
form 17:19 20:20 21:5  
fortunate 10:13,25  
forward 4:8 7:24  
foundation 10:11  
free 5:8 8:1  
involved 10:13,24  
history 20:25  
issue 3:24 7:17 9:20 15:20  
20:13  
hold 5:23 7:25 16:16 23:21  
Honor 12:10  
issues 17:8  
hoping 18:17  
Housefield 20:11,23  
J
I
Jack 3:25 7:2 15:7  
Jayson 10:2  
front 24:3  
identify 4:8  
ii 17:25  
functional 18:1,7  
job 17:25 18:1,6,8  
Joint 5:21  
iii 17:22 18:1,10  
judge 17:20  
Hearing  
07/07/2021  
Magistrates 9:1,5 12:21 13:4  
ยท5  
July 3:20,24 5:19,20 7:14,18  
newspaper 6:8  
9:17,21 15:17,21  
mail 24:8  
newspapers 3:22 7:16 9:19  
Justice 11:22,24 16:6  
15:19  
mailing 4:10  
Nolish 3:1,25 5:2,10,25 7:2,3  
8:4 9:2 10:4 11:9,13,16,25  
12:6,9,11,13,18 13:2,11,16,  
18,24 15:2,7 16:19,24 17:3,6  
21:7 22:23 23:12,16,21,24  
maintain 22:13  
MAJ 11:3  
K
kind 4:13 18:18 19:11,18  
make 4:5 13:11 22:19 23:5  
making 8:6  
20:12  
note 3:6 4:3 6:6 11:2,5 12:23  
noted 11:16 13:11,21  
notes 21:8  
L
management 10:18  
mandatory 23:9  
Manual 5:15  
L-150 3:20 7:14 9:17 15:17  
Labor 3:3 7:6 9:4 15:4  
language 21:3 22:15  
large 4:12  
notice 19:25 20:2  
noticed 3:9  
matter 8:4,9 13:24  
matters 11:6  
notices 6:7  
MCL 3:13,15,17 7:9,11 9:10,  
12,14 15:12,14  
Law 10:7,20  
number 3:24 7:17 15:13,21  
21:17  
leave 4:17 13:21  
leaved 19:22  
meaningless 20:21  
means 19:6  
Numbers 3:16 7:10 9:13  
legislative 20:25  
length 20:13  
O
meet 20:20  
member 13:6  
members 10:8  
mention 5:10  
Messrs 23:17  
objection 22:13  
objective 17:19  
obtain 18:5,8  
occurs 19:10  
officers 20:17  
official 5:15  
letter 12:1,4,25 13:9  
letters 12:24  
limited 17:14  
linking 18:17  
Michigan 3:21,23 7:17 9:20  
10:7 11:19,21,24 12:23 13:7  
15:18,20 16:6,9 24:10  
list 6:1 8:7  
listed 4:7 6:8  
microphone 17:4  
minutes 5:6 8:2 23:22  
MMI 23:4  
Okemos 24:10  
litigated 19:2  
open 7:4 8:1 13:21 16:16  
23:22 24:11  
litigation 19:9 22:9  
long 21:13,21 22:24  
opportunity 3:3 7:6 9:4 10:5  
15:4  
monitoring 6:12  
M
months 10:11  
order 3:16,19 4:7 7:10,13  
morning 7:2 11:18,20,23 15:2  
Moving 17:21 18:22  
9:13,16 10:1 15:13,16 21:16  
Macdonald 11:20,21 12:9,10,  
12 13:13,14 23:17  
organization 4:9  
organizations 16:11  
outdated 5:17  
made 12:7  
N
magistrate 6:5 13:9 14:1 16:1  
17:11,12,15,22 20:11,23  
names 4:7  
outlined 12:4  
magistrate's 8:11  
narrowed 17:18  
outlining 16:10 17:25  
Hearing  
07/07/2021  
ยท6  
overdue 21:13  
potential 22:13  
put 21:3  
overly 17:17 18:11  
practice 10:18 18:6  
practices 20:8  
putting 10:24  
P
Q
prejudiced 17:16  
present 4:14  
p.m. 9:17 15:17 23:15 24:4,12,  
question 18:13  
15  
presentations 8:6  
president 11:21  
pretty 19:18  
R
PA 3:13 7:9  
pages 13:4,9  
reading 19:21  
reads 23:6  
paper 15:24  
prevent 17:19  
Paragraph 5:13 21:24  
parentheses 20:4  
part 5:7,21 12:7 13:12  
participate 10:9  
parties 13:5  
prior 9:22 16:4  
reasonable 11:6  
Recall 13:24  
Recalling 8:4  
receipt 24:10  
receive 4:3 16:5  
received 16:3  
recently 20:12  
Procedures 3:14 9:11  
proceed 6:13  
process 10:11,15 19:7  
progress 10:14  
pronounce 16:22  
proofs 19:2 21:20  
proposals 10:12  
party 17:16  
past 11:21  
percentages 20:18  
perfect 17:6  
recess 5:9,24 6:16 8:3,11,12  
13:22,23 14:6 16:18 23:23  
proposed 3:2 4:4 7:5 9:3 11:3,  
7 12:2,4 15:3 16:10 17:11  
24:6  
perform 22:8  
recessed 14:3  
performed 19:11  
performing 22:2  
performs 18:15,20  
period 10:10 13:21  
personal 11:2,5 21:19  
personally 17:15  
pertinent 18:2  
reconvene 6:4 8:10  
provide 17:19 23:13  
provided 12:5  
record 3:1 5:7 7:4,25 8:8 12:7  
13:12,21 14:2 16:5,16,20  
23:21 24:1,10,13  
provider 23:2  
records 24:3  
providers 21:25 22:1  
proving 22:10  
reduce 10:21  
refer 23:17  
provision 21:14  
referred 9:6 15:5 23:8  
reflect 3:1  
provisions 3:11 7:8 9:8 15:10  
place 3:21 7:14 9:18 15:18  
21:3 23:3  
public 3:2,15 7:4,19 9:2,9,12  
14:1 15:3,11  
regard 24:11  
plaintiffs' 21:14  
plan 19:15  
publication 5:19 15:23  
publications 3:9  
Register 3:23 7:17 9:20 15:20  
registration 4:17  
point 4:13 7:19 8:1 9:25 18:24  
22:4  
published 3:22,24 6:7 7:16,18  
rehabilitation 19:7,10,14,16  
9:19,21 15:19,21  
21:24,25 22:1,2,8 23:9  
policy 20:19  
portion 6:3  
purposes 18:25 19:9,16 21:5  
22:6,9,18  
relative 7:20  
relying 5:16,18  
postings 18:7  
pursuant 3:10 7:8 9:7 15:9  
Hearing  
07/07/2021  
ยท7  
remain 24:11  
12:3,21,24 13:10 14:1,4 15:1,  
3 16:1,2,4,9,20 17:11 18:16,  
22 19:15 21:1 22:16 24:6  
small 20:18  
Sounds 23:19  
Source 5:12  
remarks 12:20  
removed 20:7  
remunerative 17:24  
render 20:21  
ruleset 5:14 7:7,20 9:6,23  
15:23 16:15  
speak 4:5,6,8 7:22 10:5 11:10  
16:4,14  
Ruleset also 15:5  
speakers 4:6  
reopen 16:19  
rulesets 6:14 15:25 23:24  
speaking 5:3 8:6 10:1,3,19  
specifically 23:10  
Specifications 5:15  
starting 9:24  
Reorganization 3:15 7:10  
9:12 15:12  
S
report 4:11 5:21 17:24  
reported 20:4  
section 3:11,13 7:9 9:8,10  
10:6,7,20 15:10 16:8,9 18:23  
19:20 20:3,16 21:4  
reporting 10:10  
State 10:7,23 16:9  
step 19:7  
Self-insurance 16:7  
Reports 17:23  
self-insured 11:4,19 12:23  
13:7  
represent 4:9 11:5  
representatives 11:4  
requested 14:2  
Stokes 18:25 19:8  
story 22:11  
separate 3:7  
streamlining 10:17  
subjective 17:18  
submit 4:16,18  
separately 11:12  
Services 3:5,8 5:1,4,11 15:25  
set 6:15 11:15  
sets 4:15  
required 19:15 22:2,3  
requirement 23:1  
requirements 18:1,7 20:20  
requiring 18:8 20:19  
residual 19:1,17 22:10,18  
respects 11:14  
submitted 6:1 10:2 12:1  
substantive 19:25 21:10  
suggested 12:25  
summary 20:24  
setting 19:16  
share 24:6  
shareholdership 20:19  
sheet 4:8  
response 5:5  
support 10:3,11 12:1,3,24  
16:7,25 17:8 21:22  
restrictions 4:14  
result 10:19  
shifts 18:9,11  
supported 12:15 16:11  
supporting 16:9  
shopping 17:20  
Reuber 20:12,23  
reviewed 11:3  
short 5:9,24 8:3,12 13:23 14:6  
16:18 23:23  
supposed 17:1  
Richard 11:23  
shows 6:10  
T
road 22:22  
sides 12:15  
taking 15:22  
Robert 11:20  
sign-in 4:7 6:1 8:7  
sign-ins 24:3  
talk 22:21  
Room 3:20 7:14 9:17 15:17  
talking 22:11  
rule 4:15 5:11,12 10:11 17:11,  
22 18:14,23 19:3,6,20,24  
20:10 21:3,12,23 22:3  
signed 4:5 6:2 7:21,22 12:17  
13:5,8  
talks 19:19 20:2  
temporary 13:22  
ten 21:15  
similarly 5:19  
rules 3:2,5,7,8 4:4 5:4,16,17,  
22 6:3,4,8,10 7:5 8:5,11 9:3  
10:10,16,19,24 11:1,7,10,15  
situations 18:5  
terminology 18:19 19:12  
Hearing  
07/07/2021  
ยท8  
testify 6:2 16:24  
testifying 17:8  
things 21:11  
WC-337 20:5  
WCA 15:6  
WDCAC 7:7  
thoughtfully 12:16  
whichever 23:5  
willingness 4:6  
time 4:13 5:17,23 6:11,15  
13:22 14:4 21:3,21 24:1  
wishes 7:23 16:4,14  
Woodlake 24:9  
times 21:15  
today 3:7 4:2,3,19 6:3 10:12  
13:8 21:11 23:15 24:4,12  
work 18:9 21:15,19 23:4,18  
workers 4:1 8:5 10:22  
today's 23:25  
Workers' 3:4,5,11 5:1 7:1,3,6  
9:1,4,5,8 10:6,20 13:25 15:1,  
4,7,10 16:8 17:10,21 24:8  
transcribed 4:11  
trial 19:2,17 22:9,18  
type 21:6,9  
write-up 20:15  
writing 4:17 24:7  
written 16:5 19:14  
U
UB-04 5:15  
Y
undue 18:4  
unduly 18:9  
update 5:13 10:14  
updated 5:20  
years 21:17  
V
version 5:18  
visit 5:8  
vocational 17:23 18:13,15,19,  
20,23 19:6,7,10,16 21:23,24  
22:1,2,3,6,8,17 23:2,8  
W
wage 19:1,17 22:10,18  
wait 5:6  
wander 8:1  
wanted 23:5  
warrant 17:13  
Warsh 11:23 12:13,14 13:16,  
17 23:17  
;