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STATE OF MICHIGAN  
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS  
BUREAU OF PROFESSIONAL LICENSING  
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PUBLIC HEARING  
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THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 9, 2021  
AT ABOUT 1:00 P.M.  
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G. MENNEN WILLIAMS BUILDING AUDITORIUM  
525 W. OTTAWA STREET  
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LANSING, MICHIGAN  
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RE: Pharmacy - Controlled Substances  
(MOAHR #2020-82 LR)  
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HEARING FACILITATOR:  
ANDRIA DITSCHMAN  
Bureau of Professional Licensing  
611 W. Ottawa Street  
Lansing, Michigan 48909  
19 ALSO PRESENT: Kerry Przybylo  
Stephanie Wysack  
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23 REPORTED BY: Lori Anne Penn, CSR-1315  
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I N D E X  
2 Opening Statement - Andria Ditschman  
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4 COMMENTS:  
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Lori Young  
Kolinda Lambert  
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8 Closing Statement - Andria Ditschman  
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Lansing, Michigan  
Thursday, September 9, 2021  
At 1:00 p.m.  
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ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: It's 1:00 o'clock. My  
name is Andria Ditschman and I am the analyst for the  
Bureau of Professional Licensing in the Department of  
Licensing and Regulatory Affairs, and I will be  
conducting the hearing today.  
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This is a pubic hearing on proposed  
administrative rules entitled "Pharmacy - Controlled  
Substances". We are conducting the hearing as required  
by the Administrative Procedures Act to allow the public  
to comment on the proposed changes to this rule set. As  
with all other public hearings on draft rule sets, the  
only items discussed during the hearing will be the  
proposed changes to the rule set. This hearing will not  
be covering any questions or discussions on any other  
issues.  
We're calling the hearing to order at  
1:00 p.m. on September 9, 2021, at the G. Mennen Williams  
Building Auditorium located at 525 West Ottawa Street in  
Lansing, Michigan. The notice of public hearing was  
published in three newspapers of general circulation, the  
Grand Rapids Press and the Flint Journal and the Mining  
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Journal, as well at Michigan Register, Issue #15-2021,  
published on September 1, 2021.  
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We are here today to receive your  
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comments on the proposed rules. If you wish to speak,  
please make sure you have signed in and indicated your  
willingness to speak. You may use the cards provided in  
the lobby for this purpose. If you would like to speak  
and have not signed in, please do so now. For those of  
you who do not wish to sign in with a card, you may speak  
at the microphone once we have exhausted the cards that  
are submitted to me. If you have a comment but do not  
wish to speak, please note that the Department will also  
accept written comments e-mailed or postmarked to  
[email protected] until 5:00 p.m. today.  
All comments should relate directly to  
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the proposed rules. If you have questions about the  
rules, you may place your comments on the record and the  
Department will review and consider them. If you have  
suggested changes to the proposed rules, please include  
the specific reasons why the changes would be in the  
public interest.  
Those making comments should clearly and  
slowly say and spell your name and advise if you are  
speaking on behalf of an organization. We will limit the  
comments to three minutes per person. Please remember  
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that only one person should speak at a time.  
The other Department staff from the  
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Bureau of Professional Licensing today are Kerry Przybylo  
and Stephanie Wysack.  
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I don't have any cards at this time.  
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Does anyone wish to speak?  
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LORI YOUNG: I have a card. (Provided to  
Ms. Ditschman.)  
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ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: Okay. So Lori Young,  
go ahead and come up to the microphone.  
LORI YOUNG: Yes. Good afternoon, and  
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thank you for this opportunity to address the committee.  
My name is Lori, L-o-r-i, my last name is Young,  
Y-o-u-n-g, and I'm representing Hospice Care of Southwest  
Michigan. And I'm here today just to ask for  
clarification regarding the definition of an exclusion  
versus a waiver.  
There's some references that are noted in  
333.17754a under item (5), letter (h), "If the  
prescription is issued and dispensed in the same health  
care facility and the individual for whom the  
prescription is issued uses the drug exclusively in the  
health care facility. As used in this subdivision,  
'health care facility' includes, but is not limited to,  
any of the following:" Item (ii) indicates a hospice.  
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And so I'm here today to receive  
clarification if this is an exemption for a hospice. The  
definition of a hospice, as in the health facility  
licensure rules, a hospice includes both a hospice  
residence inpatient unit as well as a hospice program in  
general that provides care and services to those in many  
different residential settings. So we're seeking  
clarification, and if we would fall under the exception  
or if we should pursue the waiver process if we are not  
prepared on October 1 to transmit all prescriptions  
electronically.  
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ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: Thank you.  
LORI YOUNG: You're welcome.  
ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: Is there anyone else  
that wishes to speak?  
KOLINDA LAMBERT: I do.  
ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: Have you filled out a  
card yet?  
KOLINDA LAMBERT: I just got it.  
ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: Okay. You can come up  
and speak, and then if you would just leave the card if  
you haven't filled it out yet, you can do that after.  
KOLINDA LAMBERT: Okay.  
ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: Do you need me to  
bring that to you?  
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KOLINDA LAMBERT: No.  
ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: Okay.  
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KOLINDA LAMBERT: Okay. I'd like to  
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address the MCL 333.7303. You've got doctors so scared  
to prescribe anything that people like me are just dying  
in pain, and it's not right. I don't know why I can't  
get pain medications because doctors are afraid of losing  
their license when I'm clearly in chronic pain.  
ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: So we're here for the  
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controlled substances rules. Is there any specific rule  
that you have a comment on?  
KOLINDA LAMBERT: Yeah, the MCL 333.7303.  
ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: Okay. Thank you. Any  
other comments on that section?  
KOLINDA LAMBERT: Well, I still would  
like an answer to why I can't get pain medications the  
way I should, and why do people have to go every month,  
especially when it's hard to get out?  
ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: So we don't address  
questions here today, and I believe that -- I believe  
you're referencing the Public Health Code today, and  
today we're here talking about the controlled substances  
rules, just the rules, not the statute. So but we will  
take your comment back to the rules committee and to the  
Board when they talk about comments for the rules, and if  
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it does affect this rule set, then they would discuss  
that at the time and determine if there was any way to  
change any of the rules in response to your request.  
KOLINDA LAMBERT: Okay. And also put on  
there this should never have been a blanketed rule.  
Everybody's different, so everybody should be treated  
different. I mean you're not going to have somebody walk  
into a hospital with a broken toe and someone that's in a  
horrific car accident and give them both Tylenol 4s, you  
know, it should never have been blanketed.  
ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: Okay. Thank you for  
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your comments.  
Any other comments today on the  
controlled substances rules? (No response.)  
So we will take a recess at this time  
until, we'll do 15 minutes, so maybe 25 after, and we'll  
go back on the record at that time to see if there's  
anymore comments.  
(Recess from 1:08 p.m. until 1:25 p.m.)  
ANDRIA DITSCHMAN: It's now 1:25 p.m.,  
we're going back on the record. And are there any new  
comments at this time on the controlled substances rules?  
(No response.)  
Okay. I'm not seeing any, so we will  
close the hearing. The record will remain open today  
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until 5:00 p.m. for any other comments you may wish to  
share about the proposed rules. And thank you for  
attending.  
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(At 1:26 p.m., the public hearing concluded.)  
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1 STATE OF MICHIGAN )  
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2 COUNTY OF MACOMB )  
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I, Lori Anne Penn, certify that this  
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transcript consisting of 10 pages is a complete, true,  
and correct record of the proceedings held in the  
captioned matter on Thursday, September 9, 2021.  
I further certify that I am not  
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responsible for any copies of this transcript not made  
under my direction or control and bearing my original  
signature.  
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I also certify that I am not a relative  
or employee of or an attorney for a party; or a relative  
or employee of an attorney for a party; or financially  
interested in the action.  
September 13, 2021  
_________________ _____  
Date  
Lori
Notan  
My Commission Expires June 15, 2025  
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