Public Hearing for the Administrative Rules Cleanup Criteria Requirements for  
Response Activity  
Thursday, July 8, 2021  
For the Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy:  
Mr. James Ostrowski, Manager, Environmental Support Division  
Leslie Smith, III, Environmental Assistance Specialist, Environmental Support  
Josh Mosher, Assistant Director, Remediation and Redevelopment Division  
Patty Brandt, Environmental Quality Specialist, Remediation and  
Redevelopment Division  
Kevin Schrems, Environmental Quality Specialist, Remediation and  
Redevelopment Division  
Eric Wildfang, Toxicology Unit Manager, Remediation and Redevelopment  
Dale Shaw, Regulatory Affairs Officer, Information Management Division  
Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy Public Hearing  
July 8. 2021  
Statement by Mr. Ostrowski .  
Statement by Mr. Mosher  
Statement by Ms. Cyndi Roper  
Statement by Ms. Yaneli Sanchez  
Closing Statement by Mr. Ostrowski .  
2, 4  
Closing Statement by Mr. Mosher  
Zoom Public Meeting  
Thursday, July 8, 2021 – 2:01 p.m.  
MR. OSTROWSKI: Okay. Good afternoon everyone. It's 2:01,  
so we’re going to get started. There’s about 10 people logged in at the moment,  
and I'm sure we'll have a few more log in as we get started. Good afternoon, my  
name is Jim Ostrowski, and I'm the Hearings Officer for this public hearing on the  
proposed administrative rule revisions to 2020-130 EQ, Cleanup Criteria  
Requirements for Response Activity rules. Just a couple of housekeeping things  
as we get started here. First of all, all lines are muted. When we get to the  
actual comment period, I'll explain how that will work so we can unmute your line  
so you can make your comment, but for right now, all the lines are muted. Just  
to advise you as well, we're also recording this hearing. So, you'll be able to find  
that on our YouTube channel in the next couple of days, but it is all being  
Okay, just want to do some introductions. With me today are  
Joshua Mosher. He's the Assistant Director of the Remediation and  
Redevelopment Division, RRD, and he is representing the director of the  
department, as the decision maker. Dale Shaw, EGLE Regulatory Affairs Officer,  
is also here today. And Kevin Schrems, Environmental Quality Specialist with  
RRD. And also, Les Smith with Environmental Support Division is here as well.  
So, he'll be working with me in the background, and helping with moderation.  
All right, just to go over the hearing agenda, first we will begin with  
some background information about why we are here. Then we will describe the  
purpose of the hearing, and how your comments will be considered. Following  
that, we will outline the procedures under which we will take your comments and  
describe what will happen after today's hearing. Then it will be time to hear your  
comments. We will spend the majority of today's time listening to those  
comments. And in a minute, I'll explain a little bit more how that will work. But  
until then, I'm going to turn it over to Josh Mosher for some background  
information. Go ahead, Josh.  
MR. MOSHER: Good afternoon, everybody. I'm Josh Mosher,  
Assistant Director for the Remediation and Redevelopment Division. We are the  
Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy Public Hearing  
July 8. 2021  
division that administers the state environmental remediation programs. So, the  
Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy's Remediation  
Division is responsible for promulgating Michigan's Cleanup Criteria rules. The  
laws governing this responsibility can be found in Sections 20104 and 20120a of  
Part 201, Environmental Remediation of the Natural Resources and  
Environmental Protection Act. That's 1994, Public Act 451, as amended. We are  
here for a public hearing on proposed revisions to the Cleanup Criteria  
Requirements for Response Activity rules. These proposed revisions are  
available on the Michigan Office of Administrative Hearings and Rules website.  
And we also provided a link to the rules in the chat, so you'll find the link there.  
The purpose of this proposal rule set is to add the previously  
established criteria for the seven per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances, commonly  
referred to as PFAS, and a new table under the Rule 44 part of the rules, which  
contains the generic PFAS criteria for groundwater cleanups. No other Generic  
Cleanup Criteria are being revised as part of this rule set. The rule builds on the  
promulgated... and approved the promulgated, the rules promulgated... sorry, the  
rule's promulgated by EGLE, and approved by the Environmental Rules Review  
Committee in 2020, that established the PFAS standards for safe water at public  
water supplies.  
So RRD followed the process prescribed in Part 201 to develop  
values for the generic groundwater criteria for the drinking water pathway, for  
these seven PFAS. However, those values differ from the state drinking water  
standards that were promulgated in August of 2020, and in this circumstance,  
when the calculated criteria for the drinking water pathway differs from the state  
drinking water standard, then the regulations dictate that their criteria must be the  
state drinking water standard.  
So again, the state drinking water standards were promulgated in  
August 2020, and the Remediation Redevelopment Division calculated  
groundwater cleanup standards, and they differ from those state drinking water  
So, the statute requires us to use the state drinking water  
standard and promulgate those as our criteria. Therefore, this rule proposes the  
state drinking water standard, as the Part 201 Generic Groundwater Criteria for  
the drinking water pathway, consistent with state law.  
This proposed rule will ensure that the drinking water of all  
Michigan systems, whether from a public water supply or from a private well, are  
equally protected. Currently, nearly 3 million people obtain their drinking water  
from a private well within the state.  
This rule also creates regulatory certainty for individuals that  
cause, or are impacted, by PFAS contamination in ground water used for  
drinking water.  
Michigan uses the Generic Cleanup Criteria to determine facility  
status under Part 201. Determining facility status is the threshold for all  
Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy Public Hearing  
July 8. 2021  
responsibilities and requirements of the cleanup program. Michigan's Generic  
Cleanup Criteria also provide a party responsible for addressing a contaminant,  
with the appropriate tools, to determine if response activities, or other actions,  
should be taken at a contaminated site, to prevent unacceptable exposure to the  
public. The responsible party can use the Generic Cleanup Criteria as the  
cleanup levels to achieve no further action at a contaminated site. The  
responsible party also has the ability to use site-specific criteria, based on site-  
specific risk assessments, approved by the department, in lieu of the Generic  
Cleanup Criteria. The purpose of today's hearing is to take comments on the  
proposed revision to the rules, for only the seven PFAS hazards.  
MR. OSTROWSKI: All right, thanks Josh. I'll take it over from  
here. Let's go over the rule making process. Now I'll explain the rule making  
process, and how your comments will be used.  
In order for the rule promulgation to occur, the department must  
follow the procedures set forth in the Administrative Procedures Act of 1969 and  
the Michigan Office of Administrative Hearings and Rules' procedures. The  
purpose of today's hearing is to give anyone interested in the proposed rules an  
opportunity to provide information that the department can use in making its  
The notice of public hearing was published in four newspapers of  
general circulation, the Bay City Times and Grand Rapids Press on June 20th,  
2021, the Traverse City Record-Eagle on June 23rd, 2021, and the Marquette  
Mining Journal on June 24th, 2021. Copies of the Notice of Public Hearings,  
Regulatory Impact Statement, proposed rules, and summary of the proposed  
rules were made available to those interested. And as just noted in the chat,  
you'll find a link to all those documents as well, if you'd like to look at them.  
Okay. To ensure today's hearing is conducted in a fair manner,  
we will follow these steps. First, we will call the names of those who have  
indicated they would like to make a statement, when they registered for the  
hearing. When your name is called, your microphone will be un-muted, and as  
you begin your comments, please state your name and any group or association  
you might represent. After we have called on those who requested the comment  
during registration, we will open it up to all others to make a comment. At that  
time, you can click on the raise hand icon on your zoom toolbar to indicate that  
you would like to make a comment. If you are joining by telephone only, you can  
type #2 on your phone to raise your hand.  
Please remember, as you begin your comments to state your  
name and any group or association you may represent. When all the comments  
have been completed, we will ask if anyone else would like to make a statement.  
Each person will be given five minutes to make their comments, we will indicate  
to you when you have one minute left. Please begin wrapping up your  
comments, and end within the allotted time. If need be, we will indicate when  
your time has ended.  
Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy Public Hearing  
July 8. 2021  
Please understand the purpose of the hearing today is to provide  
an opportunity to receive and listen to your comments, only. The hearings  
process does not allow for open discussion, or questions about the proposed  
rules. EGLE staff will not be responding to questions or comments during the  
This hearing is being recorded, and your comments will become a  
part of the information the department will consider, when finalizing the proposed  
rules. The public comment period for the proposed rules ends on August 9th,  
2021 at 5:00 p.m. If you have written comments or materials that you would like  
to submit, please email them to the email address on your screen, which is:  
EGLE-RRD@Michigan.gov. You'll want to email them by 5:00 p.m. on August  
9th. Also on your screen, you'll note the mailing address you can send it to,  
which is: EGLE Remediation and Redevelopment Division, Attention Kevin  
Schrems: P.O. Box 30426, Lansing, Michigan, 48909-7926.  
Following the public hearing, we will review the written and verbal  
comments received during the comment period. Once this review is done an  
agency report will be prepared. The agency report will explain any additional  
changes EGLE may have made to the proposed rules, as a result of the  
comments received. It will also summarize who is in favor of the draft rules, and  
who is opposed to them.  
The proposed rules and agency report will be submitted to the  
Michigan Office of Administrative Hearings and Rules, or MOAHR, and the Joint  
Committee on Administrative Rules or JCAR. JCAR is a bipartisan legislative  
committee made up of five House and five Senate members, that provide  
legislative oversight on the rulemaking process. The agency report will be  
available on EGLE and MOAHR's website, or by contacting the RRD office.  
Once approved, the rules will be filed with the Secretary of State and will take  
effect seven days after filing.  
You can follow along with the rule-making process, step-by-step,  
by going to the Michigan Office of Administrative Hearings and Rules website. I  
will now begin calling the names of those who have indicated that they would like  
to make a statement. All right, everyone. Got done reading all the official things,  
so now we're going to start taking comments from you all. And like I said in my  
statement, I will start calling the people who indicated they wanted to make a  
comment when they registered. We've only got a couple of those. And after we  
do that, I'll ask you to raise your hand. Or it looks like... I don't think we have  
anybody on just the phone, so you can use the raise hand icon. All right. So, I'm  
looking at my list of people, and Les going to help me get these people unmuted.  
The first person that indicated they wanted to make a comment,  
was Mark Dekruyter. And then after Mark, Brian Considine. So, Les, if you  
could, help me get... Mark unmuted, and Mark, you should be able to unmute  
yourself. And remember you each have five minutes, and I'll be keeping track on  
my phone here, and I'll let you know when you have one minute left. Then when  
your time's expired too, if you've used it all up. So Mark... If you can, you should  
Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy Public Hearing  
July 8. 2021  
see a... You should be able to unmute yourself. Mark, are you there? It should  
be in the lower left-hand corner of the Zoom screen.  
All right, so I don't... It looks like he doesn't want to make a  
comment. If you do decide after we're done, you would like to make a comment,  
you can just raise your hand later on. That's fine. And Brian Considine, I just  
saw in the question box, last, he put on there, "I'll pass my time to someone  
else." Oh, okay. So... I just saw that. So, Brian, if you change your mind, you  
can raise your hand. That's no problem. Those are the only two people who  
preregistered, and said they wanted to make a comment. So, Les, can you put  
up the next slide there?  
MR. SMITH: Sure. We have a hand.  
MR. OSTROWSKI: Yeah. Just to remind you if... So that's the  
people that preregistered, so now if you'd like to make a comment, you can either  
raise your hand and I'll call on you, and we'll unmute your mic that way. If you  
are on the phone, and for some reason I don't see you, I'll find the phone, only  
you just hit #2 on the phone. So, we do have someone with their hand raised:  
Cyndi Roper. Cyndi, you should be able to unmute yourself. There you go.  
MS. CYNDI ROPER: Great. Thank you so much for this  
opportunity. My name is Cyndi Roper, and I'm a Lansing-based Senior Policy  
Advocate for the Natural Resources Defense Councils' Safe Water Initiative. On  
behalf of our more than 3 million members, and online activists, including roughly  
70,000 members in Michigan, the Natural Resources Defense Council  
appreciates the opportunity to comment on the Michigan Department of  
Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy's proposed rules to apply the maximum  
contaminant levels for per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances, or PFAS, as the  
Generic Cleanup Criteria for groundwater used for drinking water.  
We laud the Whitmer administration for advancing these  
standards to level the safe drinking water playing field for Michiganders,  
regardless of whether they get their drinking water from, a private well or a public  
water system. We strongly support the proposed rules.  
The Natural Resources Defense Council has played a leadership  
role in advancing solutions to the PFAS crisis through our efforts at the nation’s  
Capital, and in states throughout the U.S. In Michigan, we released a PFAS in  
drinking water report in March of 2019 and called on EGLE to establish MCLs  
that would best protect public health.  
Given the extensive PFAS contamination in Michigan, EGLE  
should not attempt to balance industry's acceptance of its proposed cleanup  
criteria for groundwater used as drinking water, against protecting the public's  
health. It's time for industry to accept responsibility for chemical contamination,  
resulting from their successful lobbying efforts, that allow chemicals to be  
Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy Public Hearing  
July 8. 2021  
released without proving they are safe, that block public health protective  
standards, that protect them from liability for their pollution, and more.  
EGLE displayed leadership in adopting the PFAS MCLs when our  
federal government wouldn't act. And while those drinking water protections  
didn't go as far as NRDC advocated they should, they represented an important  
step forward.  
The issuance of emergency rules that are currently in place, and  
the promulgation of these Cleanup Criteria rules to include PFAS MCLs,  
represent important measures to ensure all Michiganders have the same drinking  
water protections, regardless of whether they are served by a public water  
system or a private well. Thank you again for your efforts.  
MR. OSTROWSKI: All right, thank you for your comment. Okay,  
I'm going to ask now if anyone else would like to make a comment. Again, just  
click the raise hand icon on your toolbar there. I'll give it an awkward few...  
Minute or so, if people want to change their mind and make comments, so... I will  
leave it open.  
MR. SMITH: We have a...  
MR. OSTROWSKI: Yeah, I... Okay. It looks like we got another  
person with their hand up. Yaneli Sanchez? You should be able to unmute your  
mic on your end and remember to restate your name and any association you  
might be with. Go ahead.  
MS. YANELI SANCHEZ: Alrighty, thank you. My name is Yaneli  
Sanchez. I'm an undergraduate student at Eastern Michigan University, and I'm  
also a resident of Wayne County. I think this rule comes at a particularly  
important time, not only in the context of climate change and our environment,  
but also in... '19 pandemic. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and  
the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry both recognize the  
potential health effects of PFAS. They have even released a statement on the  
potential intersection between PFAS exposure and COVID-19. Some research  
suggests that high levels of certain PFAS can lead to increased cholesterol  
levels, changes in liver enzymes, small decreases in infant birth weights,  
decreased vaccine response in children, increased risk of high blood pressure in  
pregnant women, and increased risk of kidney or testicular cancer.  
The one that stands out to me the most is the decreased vaccine  
response in the children. Especially at this time when the Delta variant is  
rampant, and more variants are likely to come. I feel like PFAS are not helping  
our efforts to inoculate everyone, and to reach the goal of herd immunity. So, I  
feel like that's something important to recognize, not just the environmental  
effects, but also the public health effects, especially now that we're trying to get  
everyone vaccinated, and we don't want to have any reduction in the efficacy. I  
think I'm done, thank you.  
Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy Public Hearing  
July 8. 2021  
MR. OSTROWSKI: All right, thank you. Thank you for your  
comment. Appreciate that. All right. So, I'm looking at my board here to see if  
anybody else has got their hand raised. Les, are you seeing anyone?  
MR. SMITH: I am not presently seeing any new hands.  
MR. OSTROWSKI: Okay, then. Well, Josh, looks like that's about  
all the people who indicated they wanted to make comment. We've taken them,  
so... I can move on to my closing statement though, then. So... I don't know if,  
Les, you want to move it to the next slide, that way we can show people how to  
make comments. There you go. We'll have that up there while I'm reading rest  
of my closing statement here for you all, and then we'll close this up. And Les,  
interrupt me if I... Because I've got my screen down. Nope, it looks like there's  
still no hands up. Okay. All right.  
So, thank you for your comments and cooperation. We appreciate  
that you have shown an interest in the proposed rule revisions by taking the time  
to be here today. As previously mentioned, the public comment period ends  
Monday, August 9th, 2021. In order to be included for consideration, comments  
must be received, not postmarked, by 5:00 p.m., on August 9th. They must be  
received by 5:00 p.m. on August 9th, 2021. If you provide a verbal public  
comment today, it is not required you follow up with today's comment with writing  
a public comment as well. Please submit any comments in writing to the email  
address on your screen: EGLE-RRD@Michigan.gov.  
The next step in the process is preparing the agency report to the  
Joint Committee on Administrative Rules, or JCAR. That report will contain a  
summary of the comments supporting and in opposition to the rules. Any  
changes the proposed rules will have to be based upon comments received  
during today's hearing, and written comments received during the public  
comment period, which ends August 9th, 2021.  
The agency report will be available on the department's website,  
or by contacting the RRD office. The report and the final rules then go through  
another round of review and approvals by the Legislative Service Bureau and  
ORR before they are forwarded to JCAR. JCAR has 15 full session days in  
which to consider the rule package. The hearing is now closed. Thank you. And  
as we close things up, I'm going to go to the next slide, really quick here, and  
we'll have... If you have questions after the hearing, needed more information,  
you can contact Kevin Schrems at the phone number and email address on your  
screen, and he's listening in here today as well, as you saw earlier. And I'll turn it  
over to Joshua Mosher to see if he's got any other final comments.  
MR. MOSHER: Yeah. Thanks Jim. No, I just wanted to say  
thank you again, everybody, for your interest in participating in this very important  
part of the public process, to move this public health and environmental issue  
forward. And we look forward to reviewing the comments, as it pertains to this  
matter, so we can finalize the rule making process. Thank you.  
Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy Public Hearing  
July 8. 2021  
MR. OSTROWSKI: All right. Thanks, Josh. Just want to remind  
you all that this hearing was recorded, and it will be posted on our YouTube  
channel probably early next week. And the YouTube address URL is up on the  
screen, or you just go to YouTube and search E-G-L-E, and our site should pop  
up, and you can find the recording for this hearing and all other public meetings  
and hearings and all sorts of other good stuff on that YouTube channel. All right.  
So, I want to thank you all for joining us today. Thanks to our EGLE team that  
was here, and Les, for being on, and thank you all for spending some time, and  
commenting, and listening in. Thank you very much and have a great rest of  
your day.  
(Proceedings concluded at 2:25 p.m.)