DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN  
SERVICES CHILDREN'S SERVICES AGENCY,  
RULES FOR CHILD PLACING, PUBLIC  
HEARING VOLUME I,  
October 12, 2021  
Prepared by  
depos@networkreporting.com  
Phone: 800.632.2720  
Fax: 800.968.8653  
www.networkreporting.com  
Let us assist you GLOBALLY for all of your deposition needs.  
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES CHILDREN'S SERVICES AGENCY, RULES FOR CHILD PLACING, PUBLIC HEARING VOLUME I,  
October 12, 2021  
STATE OF MICHIGAN  
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES  
CHILDREN'S SERVICES AGENCY  
PUBLIC HEARING - VOL. I  
RULES FOR FOSTER FAMILY AND GROUP HOMES RULES  
235 South Grand Avenue, Lansing, Michigan  
Tuesday, October 12, 2021, 1:00 p.m.  
APPEARANCES:  
For the Department of MS. MARY E. BRENNAN  
Human and Human  
Services:  
State Administrative Manager and  
Regulatory Affairs Officer  
Michigan Department of Health and Human  
Services  
333 South Grand Avenue  
Lansing, Michigan 48909  
(517) 335-0745  
Also Present:  
RECORDED BY:  
Angela Hull, Jessica VandenHeuvel  
Marcy A. Klingshirn, CER 6924  
Certified Electronic Recorder  
Network Reporting Corporation  
Firm Registration Number 8151  
1-800-632-2720  
Page 1  
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES CHILDREN'S SERVICES AGENCY, RULES FOR CHILD PLACING, PUBLIC HEARING VOLUME I,  
October 12, 2021  
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TABLE OF CONTENTS  
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Statement by Ms. Brennan . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Lara Bouse. . . . . . . . . . . . .  
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DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES CHILDREN'S SERVICES AGENCY, RULES FOR CHILD PLACING, PUBLIC HEARING VOLUME I,  
October 12, 2021  
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Lansing, Michigan  
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Tuesday, October 12, 2021 - 1:08 p.m.  
MS. BRENNAN: Good afternoon. It is now 1:08 p.m.  
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We are on the record for the first of two hearings for rule  
set 2020-03, Foster Family and Group Homes. My name is Mary  
Brennan. I'm from DHHS Bureau of Legal Affairs and the  
Regulatory Officer for the Department. I would like at this  
time to introduce our subject matter experts for this  
hearing starting with Ms. Angie.  
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MS. HULL: Angela Hull, program manager with DCWL.  
MS. BRENNAN: Thank you, Angie. And Ms. Jessica?  
MS. VANDENHEUVEL: Jessica VandenHeuvel, DCWL area  
manager.  
MS. BRENNAN: Thank you very much. Housekeeping  
notifications before we begin. The hearing will be recorded  
for purposes of transcription and transparency. Please  
approach the podium if you would like to make a statement,  
provide your name, spell your last name for the  
transcriptionist, and any organization you may be speaking  
on behalf of, then provide your comment. One person shall  
speak at a time. While your comments are invaluable to the  
public hearing, we ask that you respect the public hearing  
process and keep comments respectable and you do not disrupt  
the hearing process for all. This is a state building. We  
are required to masks at all time to protect the public.  
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DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES CHILDREN'S SERVICES AGENCY, RULES FOR CHILD PLACING, PUBLIC HEARING VOLUME I,  
October 12, 2021  
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Please follow this mandate during your time at this hearing.  
There will be a 2:00 o'clock break. Restrooms are  
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down the hall and to your right. Snack shop at the end of  
the hall to your right for small snacks, coffee, and  
popcorn.  
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Comments for the public ends Friday, October 15th.  
If you have further comments, send them to the  
MDHHS-AdminRules@michigan.gov e-mail box. Please note that  
any e-mails sent to a DHHS staff person regarding comments  
to the public hearing and not sent to this administrative  
rule e-mail box will not be considered for public comment.  
The rule status is available at ars.apps.lara.state.mi.us,  
and a copy of this hearing transcript will be available at  
the admin hearing box within two weeks. Please send your  
e-mail and a transcript, the transcript will be provided to  
you.  
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Any questions with regarding housekeeping? Okay.  
If anyone would like to make a public comment, please come  
forward.  
LARA BOUSE  
MS. LARA BOUSE: Lara Bouse, B-o-u-s-e, Fostering  
Forward Michigan. We are in complete agreement with the  
rule set as proposed. We would like to see the rules  
expedited and put into place as quickly as possible to  
reduce barriers to foster home licensure as that is  
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DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES CHILDREN'S SERVICES AGENCY, RULES FOR CHILD PLACING, PUBLIC HEARING VOLUME I,  
October 12, 2021  
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necessary in order to be able to make placement for children  
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and match them to homes best to provide their -- services  
for their needs. Thank you.  
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MS. BRENNAN: Thank you. Marcy, off the record,  
please.  
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(Off the record)  
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MS. BRENNAN: We're back on the record for 2020-03  
Foster Family and Group Homes. It is now 3:46 p.m. The  
public hearing has ended. We will have the second public  
hearing tomorrow, October 13th, 2021, beginning at 1:00 p.m.  
Thank you.  
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(Proceedings adjourned at 3:46 p.m.)  
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DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES CHILDREN'S SERVICES AGENCY, RULES FOR CHILD PLACING, PUBLIC HEARING VOLUME I,  
October 12, 2021  
4:18 5:5  
podium 3:17  
popcorn 4:5  
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DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES CHILDREN'S SERVICES AGENCY, RULES FOR CHILD PLACING, PUBLIC HEARING VOLUME I,  
October 12, 2021  
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2:00 4:2  
2020-03 3:5 5:7  
2021 1:7 3:2 5:10  
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Page 2  
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN  
SERVICES CHILDREN'S SERVICES AGENCY,  
RULES FOR FOSTER FAMILY AND GROUP  
HOMES, PUBLIC HEARING VOLUME II  
October 13, 2021  
Prepared by  
depos@networkreporting.com  
Phone: 800.632.2720  
Fax: 800.968.8653  
www.networkreporting.com  
Let us assist you GLOBALLY for all of your deposition needs.  
October 13, 2021  
STATE OF MICHIGAN  
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES  
CHILDREN'S SERVICES AGENCY  
PUBLIC HEARING - VOL. II  
RULES FOR FOSTER FAMILY AND GROUP HOMES RULES  
235 South Grand Avenue, Lansing, Michigan  
Wednesday, October 13, 2021, 1:00 p.m.  
APPEARANCES:  
For the Department of MS. MARY E. BRENNAN  
Human and Human  
Services:  
State Administrative Manager and  
Regulatory Affairs Officer  
Michigan Department of Health and Human  
Services  
333 South Grand Avenue  
Lansing, Michigan 48909  
(517) 335-0745  
Also Present:  
RECORDED BY:  
Angela Hull, Jessica VandenHeuvel  
Marcy A. Klingshirn, CER 6924  
Certified Electronic Recorder  
Network Reporting Corporation  
Firm Registration Number 8151  
1-800-632-2720  
Page 1  
October 13, 2021  
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TABLE OF CONTENTS  
PAGE  
Statement by Ms. Brennan . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Shannon Chatman . . . . . . . . . .  
Statement by Ms. Lara Bouse. . . . . . . . . . . . .  
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October 13, 2021  
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Lansing, Michigan  
Wednesday, October 13, 2021 - 1:00 p.m.  
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MS. BRENNAN: Good afternoon. It is 1:00 o'clock  
p.m. We are on the record for the second of two hearings  
for the rule set 2020-03 HS, Foster Family and Group Homes.  
My name is Mary Brennan. I'm from the DHHS Bureau of Legal  
Affairs and the regulatory affairs officer for the  
Department. I'd like to introduce our subject matter  
experts for this afternoon's hearing starting with Ms.  
Angela on my left.  
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MS. HULL: Angela Hull, program manager of DCWL.  
MS. BRENNAN: Thank you. And our other expert  
today is Ms. Jessica.  
MS. VANDENHEUVEL: Jessica VandenHeuvel, DCWL area  
manager.  
MS. BRENNAN: Thank you. Housekeeping  
notifications. The hearing will be recorded for purposes of  
transcription and transparency. Please approach the podium  
if you would like to make a statement, provide your name,  
spell last name for the transcriptionist -- who I again  
forgot to introduce, that's Ms. Marcy -- and any  
organization you may be speaking on behalf of, then provide  
your comment. One person shall speak at a time. While your  
comments are invaluable to the public hearing, we ask that  
you respect the public hearing process and keep comments  
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October 13, 2021  
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respectable and you not disrupt the hearing process for all.  
This is a state building and we are required to wear masks  
at all times to protect the public. Please follow this  
mandate during your time at this hearing in this building.  
There will be a 15-minute break at 2:00 o'clock  
p.m. Restrooms, down the hall to your right. Snack shop at  
the end of the hall to your right. There are apparently  
free coffee, popcorn, other snacks. I don't know if I'd  
drink the coffee at this date, or at this time of day, but  
anyway, there is a snack shop for your convenience.  
Comments for the public ends Friday, October 15th.  
If you have further comments, please send them to  
MDHHS-AdminRules@michigan.gov. Please note any e-mails sent  
to DHHS staff regarding comments about this public hearing  
and not sent to the admin rule e-mail box will not be  
considered public comment. The rule status is available at  
ars.apps.lara.state.mi.us. A copy of the hearing transcript  
will be available at the admin rules e-mail box. Please  
wait two weeks before requesting a copy.  
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Any questions on housekeeping rules? Okay. If  
anyone would like to make a public comment, please approach  
the podium.  
SHANNON CHATMAN  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Shannon Chatman,  
C-h-a-t-m-a-n, and I am a licensing supervisor with Ennis  
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October 13, 2021  
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Center for Children in Pontiac.  
Okay. So the first rule that we had discussed at  
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my agency that we had a concern with is Rule 400.9201,  
Qualifications. And it specifically, like, our question is  
about what would count as income. And things like hair  
care, babysitting, selling items on Etsy or eBay, would  
those all possibly count as income? And also is the  
technical assistance manual going to be updated?  
MS. HULL: So I would respond now, yes?  
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MS. BRENNAN: Yes.  
MS. HULL: Okay. It's my first time, too. So  
thank you for your comments. And to answer your question,  
it will be flushed out in the technical assistance manual as  
well.  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: And are there going to be  
any restrictions on the types of income such as hair care  
or, I think babysitting and daycare is the bigger concern  
just because those are licensed as well?  
MS. HULL: There are no intentions on restricting  
financial resources that the family would receive.  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Thank you. The second rule  
we had discussed at my agency was -- is Rule 400.9206, and  
that's the Evaluation of the Family. We just had a concern  
that if we -- can we still ask the question -- can a private  
agency still ask the question about why the family wants to  
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October 13, 2021  
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become a foster family?  
MS. HULL: Can you point out which subrule under  
206 you're referencing?  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Oh, I did not write the  
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subrule. It's the -- it's the one that was taken out. It's  
one of the ones that was taken out. It's no longer in there  
that says why do you want to become a foster parent. It's  
now crossed off.  
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MS. HULL: One moment, please. Would you like to  
look through here and find it?  
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MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Yes.  
MS. HULL: It'S okay. The previous page is the  
206.  
MS. VANDENHEUVEL: Oh, I see where you're saying,  
the bottom.  
MS. HULL: Oh.  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Thank you.  
MS. HULL: Am I allowed to ask you questions?  
MS. BRENNAN: Yes.  
MS. HULL: If I need more time to get back to  
this?  
MS. BRENNAN: I'd have to identify myself as legal  
counsel to the Department.  
MS. HULL: Okay.  
MS. VANDENHEUVEL: You can just state that we'll  
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October 13, 2021  
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make a note of it and --  
MS. HULL: Yeah. I -- thank you for your comment.  
We'll make a note of that. I would like to research if this  
is spilling over to other parts of the rules.  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Okay.  
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MS. BRENNAN: Well, I would like to ask a  
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question. Shannon, is the agen- -- what is the purpose for  
the agency asking the question? Maybe that's the -- if you  
could --  
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MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Just as someone who has been  
in licensing for some time, that's one of the questions that  
I feel like I get a good response from families and it  
clarifies whether or not they would make an acceptable  
foster parent. I mean, if they're choosing to become a  
foster parent because they want to make money, then we can  
share with them that that's not the purpose of foster care  
and things like that.  
MS. VANDENHEUVEL: So the rule you're talking  
about is the Foster Home Evaluation, and so this is talking  
about what needs to be included in a foster home evaluation?  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Right.  
MS. VANDENHEUVEL: And you're asking does that  
prevent you not to include in the evaluation, but just to  
ask the question of the home throughout the process?  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: I mean, we'd like to include  
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October 13, 2021  
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it in the evaluation as well, but I am wondering if we can  
ask that question if it's crossed off on the rules.  
MS. BRENNAN: I'm wondering if this could  
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borderline be considered stricter than what the application  
required, but you're saying that it was in the rules  
previously and we struck that language?  
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MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Yes. And I think it's the  
same part of that history of employment.  
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MS. BRENNAN: Uh-huh (affirmative).  
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MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: We used that to base how  
financial -- well, not how financially stable, but just how  
stable in general. If they haven't worked for 20 years and  
recently obtained a job, that does give us some concern that  
they may not continue to be employed.  
MS. BRENNAN: Okay. We have to -- as Angie had  
said, we'll take it offline and we will discuss. And I  
personally like responding to questions from the public  
hearing and we shall do so, but we're going to have to meet  
and discuss.  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Okay. Thank you. All  
right. The next rule we discussed as an agency was Rule  
400.9306, and that's specifically about the bedroom square  
footage, which I thought 40 square feet was a good, minimum  
standard. So now that's removed and I'm concerned that  
families may end up really stretching the limits and putting  
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October 13, 2021  
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too many children in a room. And without that rule minimum  
square footage, I think we're going to have a hard time  
telling families, no, you can't put four children in this  
tiny room. So that's a concern.  
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MS. HULL: Thank you for your comment. Did you  
have specific questions about that?  
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MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: No, not a question.  
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MS. HULL: Okay.  
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MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Just that's the comment.  
And then the other comment we had about bedrooms and  
sleeping arrangements is removing the restriction regarding  
Pack 'N Plays and bassinets. I guess this one is a  
question. What happens when the agency says no to a family  
that has a bassinet because the bassinet is concerning,  
wobbly? I mean, I've seen some really, you know, marginal  
bassinets when they were allowed back in the day. So what  
happens if the agency says no and the family says, "But it's  
not a rule"?  
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22  
23  
24  
25  
MS. HULL: Right.  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Like, or, "It's a rule that  
we can use bassinets"?  
MS. HULL: Yeah. There are other rules that talk  
about safety in the home and maintenance of the home and the  
premises and the furnishings. So you could still assess  
equipment that's insufficient, it's unsafe, right, --  
Page 9  
October 13, 2021  
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MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Okay.  
MS. HULL: -- that your agency is assessing as  
unsafe because Pack 'N Plays and bassinets are not out of  
alignment with safe sleep, which is why they were removed.  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Okay. Thank you.  
3
4
5
6
MS. HULL: Uh-huh (affirmative).  
7
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: All right. The next one is  
Rule 400.9308. And this is another rule that back in the  
day they did not require the telephone in the home, and then  
it was put in and agencies had to adjust and families had to  
adjust. And I thought having a home phone in the home was  
important because what if we have a 4-year-old -- and the  
rule is -- the new rule is written to say "close proximity."  
But if it's a 4-year-old, I would say "close proximity," we  
don't want a 4-year-old running outside down to the  
neighbor's house because, you know, there's an emergency  
with the foster parent. Even to call 911, it would be  
better to have the phone in the home.  
8
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MS. HULL: Thank you.  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: And then Rule 400.9401. I  
was very happy when this rule changed and they added that  
children had to have a bed of their own and now it seems  
like we're going back to the way it was before and allowing  
two children to share a bed. And as an agency, our  
preference has always been that each child has their own  
Page 10  
October 13, 2021  
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2
bed. Even if two kids choose to share a bed, I think it's  
really important for trauma, kids with trauma, to have their  
own space, their own bed. And I think taking that out of  
the rule just opens up too much leeway for families to use  
just one bed for two kids. And our agency is even providing  
beds, so it's never a barrier to it. So I guess we can  
still offer the beds. I just would prefer that it be in the  
rules that children have their own bed.  
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
And then just one last rule I think is Rule  
10  
11  
12  
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15  
16  
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18  
19  
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21  
22  
23  
24  
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400.9502. It seems that there's no longer the requirement  
for the family to report a change in employment. That was  
crossed off from the rules. And I just think that is  
something that should be reported and should be required to  
report. So if the agency -- this is another one of those if  
the agency has that as a rule for families is that violating  
the CPA rules that says we can't have stricter requirements?  
So that would be a concern. We want foster families to have  
to report a change in employment.  
MS. HULL: So just to clarify, you would be  
supportive of a lifetime reporting requirement for foster  
parents in lieu of waiting for the next reevaluation where  
it would be assessed?  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: Yes.  
MS. HULL: Thank you for your comment.  
MS. SHANNON CHATMAN: And that was all the  
Page 11  
October 13, 2021  
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2
comments that I have. Thank you.  
MS. BRENNAN: Thank you. Would anyone else like  
3
to approach and make a comment? Okay. We'll go off the  
record until the next comment, if any. Marcy, can you go  
off the record, please?  
4
5
6
(Off the record)  
7
MS. BRENNAN: Back on the record, 2020-03 Family  
Foster Group Homes --  
8
9
MS. LARA BOUSE: Foster Family and Group Homes.  
MS. BRENNAN: -- thank you, Foster Family and  
Group Homes. Thank you very much. There is a person who  
would like to make a comment. Please proceed to the podium  
and make your comment.  
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
LARA BOUSE  
MS. LARA BOUSE: Lara Bouse, B-o-u-s-e, Fostering  
Forward Michigan. In regards to Rule 400.9306, Bedrooms, we  
are concerned about an inconsistency between subrule © and  
(d). Subrule Â© made changes to the requirements regarding  
walls, ceilings, and floors. Subrule (d) did not indicate a  
change to the latchable door requirement. We are under the  
impression that this is because of fire and possible carbon  
monoxide safety issues, that these two things seem  
inconsistent and might pose a barrier to foster homes  
knowing how to be in compliance with this entire rule set  
for bedrooms. And we would like the Department to do  
Page 12  
October 13, 2021  
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2
further research and determine whether latchable doors are  
still necessary. We like the removal of the added  
requirements in subrule (c). Thank you.  
MS. HULL: Thank you for your comment.  
3
4
5
MS. BRENNAN: Thank you.  
6
MS. HULL: We will do some research.  
7
MS. BRENNAN: Would anyone else like to make a  
comment? Having no one waiting to make a comment, Marcy,  
could we go off the record, please?  
8
9
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
(Off the record)  
MS. BRENNAN: We're back on the record for  
2020-03, Foster Family and Group Homes. It is now 3:46 p.m.  
We have not had public comment for several hours. There is  
no one in the public hearing room. DHHS is at this point  
going to close out the public hearing for the Foster Family  
and Group Homes. We are off the record. Thank you very  
much.  
(Proceedings concluded at 3:47 p.m.)  
-0-0-0-  
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October 13, 2021  
11:3,5,8  
4:21 7:2 9:5,9,10  
11:24 12:3,4,12  
12:13 13:4,8,8,13 ends 4:11  
employment 8:8  
11:11,18  
Grand 1:6,13  
A
bedroom 8:22  
bedrooms 9:10  
12:16,25  
beds 11:6,7  
behalf 3:22  
better 10:18  
bigger 5:17  
borderline 8:4  
bottom 6:15  
Bouse 2:4 12:9,14  
12:15,15  
Group 1:5 3:5 12:8  
12:9,11 13:12,16  
guess 9:12 11:6  
acceptable 7:13  
added 10:21 13:2  
adjust 10:10,11  
admin 4:15,18  
Administrative 1:11  
affairs 1:12 3:7,7  
affirmative 8:9 10:6  
afternoon 3:3  
afternoon's 3:9  
agen- 7:7  
agencies 10:10  
agency 1:3 5:3,22  
5:25 7:8 8:21 9:13  
9:17 10:2,24 11:5  
11:14,15  
comments 3:24,25  
4:11,12,14 5:12  
12:1  
compliance 12:24  
concern 5:3,17,23  
8:13 9:4 11:17  
concerned 8:24  
12:17  
concerning 9:14  
concluded 13:18  
considered 4:16 8:4  
CONTENTS 2:1  
continue 8:14  
convenience 4:10  
copy 4:17,19  
Ennis 4:25  
entire 12:24  
equipment 9:25  
Etsy 5:6  
evaluation 5:23  
7:19,20,23 8:1  
expert 3:12  
experts 3:9  
H
hair 5:5,16  
hall 4:6,7  
happens 9:13,17  
happy 10:21  
hard 9:2  
Health 1:2,12  
hearing 1:4 3:9,17  
3:24,25 4:1,4,14  
4:17 8:18 13:14  
13:15  
F
box 4:15,18  
break 4:5  
families 7:12 8:25  
9:3 10:10 11:4,15  
11:17  
family 1:5 3:5 5:20  
5:23,25 6:1 9:13  
9:17 11:11 12:7,9 home 7:19,20,24  
12:10 13:12,15  
feel 7:12  
Brennan 1:11 2:3  
3:3,6,12,16 5:10  
6:19,22 7:6 8:3,9  
8:15 12:2,7,10  
13:5,7,11  
hearings 3:4  
history 8:8  
alignment 10:4  
allowed 6:18 9:16  
allowing 10:23  
Angela 1:16 3:10,11  
Angie 8:15  
Corporation 1:19  
counsel 6:23  
count 5:5,7  
CPA 11:16  
crossed 6:8 8:2  
11:12  
9:23,23 10:9,11  
10:11,18  
homes 1:5 3:5 12:8  
12:9,11,23 13:12  
13:16  
hours 13:13  
house 10:16  
housekeeping 3:16  
4:20  
building 4:2,4  
Bureau 3:6  
feet 8:23  
answer 5:12  
anyway 4:10  
C
financial 5:20 8:11  
financially 8:11  
find 6:10  
fire 12:21  
Firm 1:19  
c 13:3  
C-h-a-t-m-a-n 4:25  
call 10:17  
carbon 12:21  
care 5:6,16 7:16  
ceilings 12:19  
Center 5:1  
apparently 4:7  
APPEARANCES  
1:10  
application 8:4  
approach 3:18 4:21  
12:3  
D
d 12:18,19  
date 4:9  
first 5:2,11  
day 4:9 9:16 10:9  
daycare 5:17  
DCWL 3:11,14  
Department 1:2,11  
1:12 3:8 6:23  
12:25  
determine 13:1  
DHHS 3:6 4:14  
13:14  
discuss 8:16,19  
discussed 5:2,22  
8:21  
disrupt 4:1  
door 12:20  
floors 12:19  
flushed 5:13  
follow 4:3  
footage 8:23 9:2  
forgot 3:21  
Forward 12:16  
foster 1:5 3:5 6:1,7  
7:14,15,16,19,20  
10:17 11:17,20  
12:8,9,10,23  
13:12,15  
Fostering 12:15  
four 9:3  
free 4:8  
Friday 4:11  
furnishings 9:24  
further 4:12 13:1  
HS 3:5  
Hull 1:16 3:11,11  
5:9,11,19 6:2,9,12  
6:16,18,20,24 7:2  
9:5,8,19,22 10:2,6  
10:19 11:19,24  
13:4,6  
area 3:14  
CER 1:18  
arrangements 9:11  
ars.apps.lara.stat...  
4:17  
asking 7:8,22  
assess 9:24  
assessed 11:22  
assessing 10:2  
assistance 5:8,13  
available 4:16,18  
Avenue 1:6,13  
Certified 1:18  
change 11:11,18  
12:20  
changed 10:21  
changes 12:18  
Chatman 2:4 4:23  
4:24,24 5:15,21  
6:4,11,17 7:5,10  
7:21,25 8:7,10,20  
9:7,9,20 10:1,5,7  
10:20 11:23,25  
child 10:25  
children 5:1 9:1,3  
10:22,24 11:8  
CHILDREN'S 1:3  
choose 11:1  
Human 1:2,11,11  
1:12  
I
identify 6:22  
II 1:4  
important 10:12  
11:2  
B
doors 13:1  
drink 4:9  
B-o-u-s-e 12:15  
babysitting 5:6,17  
back 6:20 9:16 10:8  
10:23 12:7 13:11  
barrier 11:6 12:23  
base 8:10  
bassinet 9:14,14  
bassinets 9:12,16,21  
10:3  
impression 12:21  
include 7:23,25  
included 7:20  
income 5:5,7,16  
inconsistency 12:17  
inconsistent 12:23  
indicate 12:19  
insufficient 9:25  
intentions 5:19  
introduce 3:8,21  
E
G
E 1:11  
e-mail 4:15,18  
e-mails 4:13  
eBay 5:6  
Electronic 1:18  
emergency 10:16  
employed 8:14  
general 8:12  
give 8:13  
go 12:3,4 13:9  
going 5:8,15 8:18  
9:2 10:23 13:15  
good 3:3 7:12 8:23  
choosing 7:14  
clarifies 7:13  
clarify 11:19  
close 10:13,14 13:15  
coffee 4:8,9  
bed 10:22,24 11:1,1  
comment 3:23 4:16  
Page 1  
October 13, 2021  
invaluable 3:24  
issues 12:22  
items 5:6  
monoxide 12:22  
point 6:2 13:14  
Pontiac 5:1  
popcorn 4:8  
pose 12:23  
possible 12:21  
possibly 5:7  
Registration 1:19  
regulatory 1:12 3:7 Services 1:2,3,12,13  
sent 4:13,15  
N
removal 13:2  
removed 8:24 10:4  
removing 9:11  
report 11:11,14,18  
reported 11:13  
reporting 1:19  
11:20  
requesting 4:19  
require 10:9  
required 4:2 8:5  
11:13  
set 3:5 12:24  
Shannon 2:4 4:23  
4:24,24 5:15,21  
6:4,11,17 7:5,7,10  
7:21,25 8:7,10,20  
9:7,9,20 10:1,5,7  
10:20 11:23,25  
share 7:16 10:24  
11:1  
shop 4:6,10  
sleep 10:4  
sleeping 9:11  
snack 4:6,10  
N 9:12 10:3  
name 3:6,19,20  
J
Jessica 1:16 3:13,14 necessary 13:2  
job 8:13  
need 6:20  
needs 7:20  
neighbor's 10:16  
Network 1:19  
never 11:6  
prefer 11:7  
preference 10:25  
premises 9:24  
Present 1:16  
prevent 7:23  
previous 6:12  
previously 8:6  
private 5:24  
proceed 12:12  
Proceedings 13:18  
process 3:25 4:1  
7:24  
K
keep 3:25  
kids 11:1,2,5  
Klingshirn 1:18  
know 4:8 9:15 10:16  
knowing 12:24  
new 10:13  
note 4:13 7:1,3  
notifications 3:17  
Number 1:19  
requirement 11:10  
11:20 12:20  
requirements 11:16 snacks 4:8  
L
O
language 8:6  
Lansing 1:6,14 3:1  
Lara 2:4 12:9,14,15  
12:15  
latchable 12:20 13:1  
leeway 11:4  
12:18 13:3  
South 1:6,13  
space 11:3  
speak 3:23  
speaking 3:22  
specific 9:6  
specifically 5:4 8:22  
spell 3:20  
o'clock 3:3 4:5  
obtained 8:13  
October 1:7 3:2  
4:11  
research 7:3 13:1,6  
resources 5:20  
respect 3:25  
respectable 4:1  
respond 5:9  
responding 8:17  
response 7:12  
restricting 5:19  
restriction 9:11  
restrictions 5:16  
Restrooms 4:6  
program 3:11  
protect 4:3  
provide 3:19,22  
providing 11:5  
proximity 10:13,14  
public 1:4 3:24,25  
4:3,11,14,16,21  
8:17 13:13,14,15  
purpose 7:7,16  
purposes 3:17  
put 9:3 10:10  
putting 8:25  
offer 11:7  
left 3:10  
officer 1:12 3:7  
offline 8:16  
Oh 6:4,14,16  
okay 4:20 5:2,11  
6:12,24 7:5 8:15  
8:20 9:8 10:1,5  
12:3  
ones 6:6  
opens 11:4  
organization 3:22  
outside 10:15  
legal 3:6 6:22  
licensed 5:18  
licensing 4:25 7:11  
lieu 11:21  
lifetime 11:20  
limits 8:25  
spilling 7:4  
square 8:22,23 9:2  
stable 8:11,12  
staff 4:14  
standard 8:24  
right 4:6,7 7:21 8:21 starting 3:9  
9:19,25 10:7  
longer 6:6 11:10  
look 6:10  
state 1:1,11 4:2 6:25  
statement 2:3,4,4  
3:19  
room 9:1,4 13:14  
rule 3:5 4:15,16 5:2  
5:3,21,22 7:18  
8:21,21 9:1,18,20 stretching 8:25  
10:8,8,13,13,20 stricter 8:4 11:16  
10:21 11:4,9,9,15 struck 8:6  
Q
M
Qualifications 5:4  
question 5:4,12,24  
5:25 7:7,8,24 8:2  
9:7,13  
questions 4:20 6:18  
7:11 8:17 9:6  
status 4:16  
maintenance 9:23  
manager 1:11 3:11  
3:15  
mandate 4:4  
manual 5:8,13  
Marcy 1:18 3:21  
12:4 13:8  
marginal 9:15  
Mary 1:11 3:6  
masks 4:2  
matter 3:8  
MDHHS-Admin...  
4:13  
mean 7:14,25 9:15  
meet 8:18  
Michigan 1:1,6,12  
1:14 3:1 12:16  
minimum 8:23 9:1  
moment 6:9  
P
p.m 1:7 3:2,4 4:6  
13:12,18  
Pack 9:12 10:3  
page 2:2 6:12  
parent 6:7 7:14,15  
10:17  
parents 11:21  
part 8:8  
parts 7:4  
person 3:23 12:11  
personally 8:17  
phone 10:11,18  
Plays 9:12 10:3  
please 3:18 4:3,12  
4:13,18,21 6:9  
12:5,12 13:9  
podium 3:18 4:22  
12:12  
12:16,24  
subject 3:8  
subrule 6:2,5 12:17  
12:18,19 13:3  
supervisor 4:25  
supportive 11:20  
rules 1:5,5 4:18,20  
7:4 8:2,5 9:22  
11:8,12,16  
R
really 8:25 9:15  
11:2  
receive 5:20  
running 10:15  
S
safe 10:4  
safety 9:23 12:22  
saying 6:14 8:5  
says 6:7 9:13,17,17  
11:16  
second 3:4 5:21  
see 6:14  
seen 9:15  
T
record 3:4 12:4,5,6  
12:7 13:9,10,11  
13:16  
recorded 1:18 3:17  
Recorder 1:18  
reevaluation 11:21  
referencing 6:3  
regarding 4:14 9:11  
12:18  
TABLE 2:1  
take 8:16  
taken 6:5,6  
talk 9:22  
talking 7:18,19  
technical 5:8,13  
telephone 10:9  
telling 9:3  
thank 3:12,16 5:12  
5:21 6:17 7:2 8:20  
selling 5:6  
send 4:12  
money 7:15  
regards 12:16  
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October 13, 2021  
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12:1,2,10,11 13:3 write 6:4  
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6
517 1:14  
13:4,5,16  
written 10:13  
things 5:5 7:17  
12:22  
X
6924 1:18  
think 5:17 8:7 9:2  
11:1,3,9,12  
thought 8:23 10:11  
time 3:23 4:4,9 5:11  
6:20 7:11 9:2  
times 4:3  
Y
Yeah 7:2 9:22  
years 8:12  
7
8
8151 1:19  
Z
tiny 9:4  
today 3:13  
9
0
911 10:17  
0-0-0- 13:20  
transcript 4:17  
transcription 3:18  
transcriptionist  
3:20  
transparency 3:18  
trauma 11:2,2  
two 3:4 4:19 10:24  
11:1,5 12:22  
types 5:16  
1
1-800-632-2720  
1:20  
1:00 1:7 3:2,3  
12 2:4  
13 1:7 3:2  
15-minute 4:5  
15th 4:11  
U
2
2:00 4:5  
20 8:12  
Uh-huh 8:9 10:6  
unsafe 9:25 10:3  
updated 5:8  
2020-03 3:5 12:7  
13:12  
2021 1:7 3:2  
206 6:3,13  
235 1:6  
use 9:21 11:4  
V
VandenHeuvel 1:16  
3:14,14 6:14,25  
7:18,22  
violating 11:15  
VOL 1:4  
3
3 2:3  
3:46 13:12  
3:47 13:18  
333 1:13  
W
wait 4:19  
335-0745 1:14  
waiting 11:21 13:8  
walls 12:19  
want 6:7 7:15 10:15  
11:17  
4
4 2:4  
4-year-old 10:12,14  
10:15  
40 8:23  
400.9201 5:3  
400.9206 5:22  
400.9306 8:22 12:16  
400.9308 10:8  
400.9401 10:20  
400.9502 11:10  
48909 1:14  
wants 5:25  
way 10:23  
we'll 6:25 7:3 8:16  
12:3  
we're 8:18 9:2 10:23  
13:11  
wear 4:2  
Wednesday 1:7 3:2  
weeks 4:19  
wobbly 9:15  
wondering 8:1,3  
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