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STATE OF MICHIGAN  
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS  
BUREAU OF PROFESSIONAL LICENSING  
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PUBLIC HEARING  
FRIDAY, DECEMBER 18, 2020  
AT ABOUT 9:09 A.M.  
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VIA ZOOM VIDEO CONFERENCE  
LANSING, MICHIGAN  
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RE:  
Audiology - General Rules  
(MOAHR #2020-35 LR)  
Landscape Architects - General Rules  
(MOAHR #2020-06 LR)  
Veterinary Medicine - General Rules  
(MOAHR #2019-108 LR)  
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HEARING FACILITATOR:  
WESTON MacINTOSH  
Bureau of Professional Licensing  
611 W. Ottawa Street  
Lansing, Michigan 48909  
21 ALSO PRESENT: Dena Marks  
Kerry Przybylo  
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25 REPORTED BY:  
Lori Anne Penn, CSR-1315  
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Opening Statement - Weston MacIntosh  
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COMMENTS:  
Victoria Dinken - Audiology  
Pamela Blough - Landscape Architects  
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Closing Statement - Weston MacIntosh  
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Lansing, Michigan  
Friday, December 18, 2020  
At 9:09 a.m.  
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(Public Hearing commenced via Zoom Video Conference  
pursuant to notice.)  
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MR. MacINTOSH: All right. Good morning.  
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My name is Weston MacIntosh, and I'm an analyst for the  
Bureau of Professional Licensing in the Department of  
Licensing and Regulatory Affairs, and I will be  
conducting the hearing today.  
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This is a public hearing on proposed  
administrative rules entitled "Audiology - General  
Rules", "Landscape Architects - General Rules", and  
"Veterinary Medicine - General Rules". We are conducting  
the hearing as required by the Administrative Procedures  
Act to allow the public to comment on the proposed  
changes to these rule sets. As with all other public  
hearings on draft rule sets, the only items discussed  
during this hearing will be the proposed changes to the  
rule sets. This hearing will not be covering any  
questions or discussions on any other issues, such as  
reopening businesses, as this is not the proper platform.  
We are calling this hearing to order at  
9:10 a.m. on December 18, 2020, via Zoom, to follow  
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measures designed to help prevent the spread of  
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19). The notice of  
public hearing was published in three newspapers of  
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general circulation, the Grand Rapids Press and the Flint  
Journal on December 1, 2020, the Mining Journal on  
December 3, 2020, as well as the Michigan Register at  
Issue No. 22, published on December 15, 2020.  
All comments should relate directly to  
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the proposed rules. If you have questions about the  
rules, you may place your comments on the record and the  
Department will review and consider them. If you have  
suggested changes to the proposed rules, please include  
the specific reasons why the changes would be in the  
public interest.  
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We will take comments in the following  
manner.  
For those using the Video Conference Portion,  
please use the "Raise Your Hand" feature in  
Zoom. I will call on individuals to speak and  
they will be unmuted at that time.  
For participants that are available only by  
telephone, we'll ask you if you wish to make a  
comment after the video participants have  
finished.  
If you have a comment but do not wish to speak,  
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please note that the Department will also accept  
written statements emailed or postmarked to  
BPL-BoardSupport@Michigan.gov until  
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5:00 o'clock p.m. today.  
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Those making comments should clearly and  
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slowly say and spell your name and advise if you are  
speaking on behalf of an organization. We will limit  
comments to three minutes per person. Please remember  
that only one person should speak at a time.  
The Department staff from the Bureau of  
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Professional Licensing includes me, Kerry Przybylo, and  
Dena Marks.  
We will group the comments by rule set so  
that we can group the comments together.  
The first rule set that we will take  
comments for is Audiology - General Rules. Is there  
anyone who wishes to speak on those rules? And again, if  
you're on Zoom, you can basically "Raise Your Hand" under  
the participants' tab, and also there is actually a  
reactions button that you can use as well.  
Okay. And it looks like I see Victoria  
Dinken. Do you want to unmute yourself, go ahead.  
VICTORIA DINKEN: Hi. Good morning.  
don't know if you can hear me.  
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MR. MacINTOSH: Yep.  
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VICTORIA DINKEN: Okay, great.  
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apologize, I'm new to this, I hope my questions aren't  
ignorant.  
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MR. MacINTOSH: No worries.  
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VICTORIA DINKEN: Okay. I am an  
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audiologist in Michigan, I always have been licensed in  
Michigan. I was just -- these are kind of minor  
concerns, but I was just curious. The first one is I was  
wondering why there was a sudden need to change the word  
"shall" in so many instances as, and also the word  
"pursuant" to -- sorry, got to look at my notes -- the  
word "pursuant" to "under" when referencing a regulation?  
MR. MacINTOSH: You know, and actually  
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that's not a silly question at all, I actually get it  
frequently. It really, what it boils down to is we have  
a legislative service bureau manual that has certain  
considerations that we have to take into -- we have to  
take into, certain things into consideration as far as  
drafting and the certain words that are preferred over  
others, and so that's really just a reflection of that.  
It's nothing substantive, just using preferred words out  
of that manual.  
VICTORIA DINKEN: And again, not to sound  
arrogant, but to me it seems less of a formal legal  
language and more of a common language; is that the route  
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that the regulations are taking in general?  
MR. MacINTOSH: Can you repeat that?  
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VICTORIA DINKEN: Oh, the reason for the  
word, I mean I didn't see those as being archaic, I did  
see them as being more formal; is that maybe the reason  
behind why they are changing the words? I understand  
your reason why you have to change them, but what was the  
founding reason for why they decided to change it?  
MR. MacINTOSH: Just to follow the style  
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manual, that's really -- at the end of the day, that's  
really the reason, so.  
VICTORIA DINKEN: Okay.  
MR. MacINTOSH: And it goes through many  
different hands, too, and there's some, you know,  
particular preference for certain words, so that's all it  
boils down to. Nothing substantive, it's just those are  
preferred words, and certainly there's a difference of  
opinion on some of those, but stylistically, that's --  
those are some of the preferences.  
VICTORIA DINKEN: I appreciate that  
knowledge. Okay. So here's the second question and last  
one for me. When we look at the CEUs, continuing  
education units, and they delineate what types are  
permitted and the maximum number of hours, I think this  
is written this way for uniformity, but, for instance, if  
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we're required in Michigan to have 20 hours of CEUs every  
two-year renewal period, why would in at least two  
instances here they say a maximum of 20 hours? To me,  
that would be confusing, especially to new audiologists  
perhaps or anybody wishing to join the field. I would  
have said something more along the lines of a maximum 20  
hours are allowed for this activity, and I don't know if  
that makes a difference or if it's just uniformity? And  
again, kind of not real important question, but just a  
curiosity question.  
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MR. MacINTOSH: Yeah. Again, I don't  
think that's necessarily really a substantive question,  
it's just probably to match similar language, you know,  
across rule sets. Like I said, there's a 20-hour  
requirement and it's probably just more or less to  
inform, again, stylistic.  
(Multiple speakers.)  
COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry, you can only  
talk one at a time. I missed what you said, Weston.  
MR. MacINTOSH: Yeah. What I said was  
it's not necessarily a substantive change or requirement,  
it's more of just, again, probably more of like a  
uniformity and stylistic.  
VICTORIA DINKEN: Okay. I get that. And  
I'm sorry, I do have one more question, I was looking at  
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my notes. With respect, and I don't know if this is  
something you're able to answer or not, but with respect  
to the number (J) for continuing education, it mentions  
participation on a state or national committee board,  
council, or association (inaudible) the field of  
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audiology, and that the committee, board, council, or  
association must enhance a participant's knowledge and  
understanding of audiology. I sit on a board which is  
now only listed in the Upper Peninsula, it's a diabetes  
board, this one is called Upper Peninsula Diabetes  
Outreach Network, I represent audiology and I represent a  
community service organization, and while they don't talk  
about audiology per se, my participation is twofold in  
the sense that I'm going to bring to them information how  
diabetes affects hearing, but also I'm able to learn  
about maybe some cures so that I can take it back to  
patients. And my question is, would my sitting on that  
board twice a year, generally it's three hours a meeting,  
apply for -- or qualify as that requirement, because they  
don't stipulate we're going to teach you about audiology?  
MR. MacINTOSH: It really wouldn't be  
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appropriate for me to determine which -- it's certainly  
not my place to determine whether, you know, your  
circumstances, you know, meet a particular rule  
requirement, it just wouldn't be appropriate for me to  
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opine, you know, on your certain circumstances, so it's  
not really appropriate for our forum.  
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VICTORIA DINKEN: Thank you. I wasn't  
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sure if that was. I realize I heard your qualification  
the beginning of this meeting. That is all I have.  
Thank you very much.  
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MR. MacINTOSH: Thank you, Victoria.  
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So we're still on the Audiology - General  
Rules. Again, if you are -- if you're on Zoom, you can  
"Raise Your Hand" in the participants' table or you can  
hit the reactions button at the bottom of your screen; if  
you're on the phone, although it doesn't look like anyone  
is, you can hit *6.  
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I'm not seeing anyone for Audiology, so  
we'll next move on to the second rule set, which is  
Landscape Architects - General Rules. Is there anyone  
who wishes to speak on Landscape Architects? And you can  
"Raise Your Hand" in the participants' tab or under the  
reaction button.  
MS. PRZYBYLO: Weston, this is Kerry.  
Pam Blough has a comment.  
MR. MacINTOSH: Okay. Pamela.  
PAMELA BLOUGH: Yes. Thank you. I'm  
Pamela Blough, I just -- I am a landscape architect, I've  
been an architect for, landscape architect for over 30  
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years, and I just wanted to voice my support for these  
rule changes and thank the State of Michigan for helping  
us to move forward with our licensure in our profession.  
Thank you.  
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MR. MacINTOSH: I'm glad to hear that,  
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Pamela. Thank you.  
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Any other participants who wish to speak  
on Landscape Architects? I'm not seeing anyone.  
So let's go ahead and move on to the  
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third rule set, which is Veterinary Medicine - General  
Rules. Is there anyone who wishes to speak on Veterinary  
Medicine? Again, you can "Raise Your Hand" in the  
participants' tab or hit the reactions button. I'm not  
seeing anyone.  
So I think what we're going to do now is  
we're just going to take a short recess, wait maybe 15-20  
minutes, see if there's anyone else who wishes to speak,  
and if not, then we'll sign off. So we're just going to  
go into recess, I'm going to mute myself and see if  
there's anyone who wishes to speak. If we don't have  
anyone else, 15-20 minutes from now we'll go ahead and  
sign off.  
(At 9:21 a.m., there was a 15-minute recess.)  
MR. MacINTOSH: Okay. Seeing that there  
are no further comments at this time, I hereby declare  
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the hearing closed. The record will remain open until  
today at 5:00 o'clock p.m. for any other comments you may  
wish to share about the proposed rules. Thank you for  
attending.  
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(At 9:35 a.m., the public hearing concluded.)  
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STATE OF MICHIGAN )  
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COUNTY OF MACOMB  
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I, Lori Anne Penn, certify that this  
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transcript consisting of 13 pages is a complete, true,  
and correct record of the Public Hearing held in this  
matter on Friday, December 18, 2020.  
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I further certify that I am not  
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responsible for any copies of this transcript not made  
under my direction or control and bearing my original  
signature.  
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I also certify that I am not a relative  
or employee of or an attorney for a party; or a relative  
or employee of an attorney for a party; or financially  
interested in the action.  
December 22, 2020 ________  
Date  
Lori
Notargan  
My Commission Expires June 15, 2025  
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