DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND  
REGULATORY AFFAIRS BUREAU OF  
COMMUNITY AND HEALTH SYSTEMS, PUBLIC  
HEARING  
August 18, 2022  
Prepared by  
Phone: 800.632.2720  
Fax: 800.968.8653  
Let us assist you GLOBALLY for all of your deposition needs.  
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS BUREAU OF COMMUNITY AND HEALTH SYSTEMS, PUBLIC HEARING  
August 18, 2022  
STATE OF MICHIGAN  
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS  
BUREAU OF COMMUNITY AND HEALTH SYSTEMS  
RE: ADMINISTRATIVE RULES  
FOR HOMES FOR THE AGED,  
RULE SET 2022-21 LR  
_____________________________/  
PUBLIC HEARING  
Lansing, Michigan - Thursday, August 18, 2022  
APPEARANCES:  
On Behalf of the  
Department of  
MS. TAMMY BAGBY  
MR. LARRY HORVATH  
Licensing and  
Bureau of Community & Health Systems  
P.O. Box 30664  
Lansing, Michigan 48909  
Regulatory Affairs:  
Recorded By:  
Karen L. Banks, CER 3592  
Certified Electronic Recorder  
Network Reporting Corporation  
Firm Registration Number 8151  
1-800-632-2720  
Page 1  
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS BUREAU OF COMMUNITY AND HEALTH SYSTEMS, PUBLIC HEARING  
August 18, 2022  
1
Lansing, Michigan  
2
Thursday, August 18, 2022 - 9:00 a.m.  
3
4
MS. BAGBY: Good morning. My name is Tammy Bagby  
and I am an analyst for the Bureau of Community and Health  
5
Systems in the Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs.  
This hearing, regarding the Administrative Rules for  
the Homes for the Aged, is being called to order at 9 a.m. on  
August 18 in the G. Mennen Williams Building auditorium  
located at 525 West Ottawa Street in Lansing, Michigan. The  
hearing is being conducted under the authority of the  
Administrative Procedures Act, P.A. 306 of 1969.  
The notice of public hearing was published in three  
newspapers: on July 26 in the Flint Journal; July 27th in the  
Grand Rapids Press; and July 28th in the Marquette Mining  
Journal. The same notice was published in the Michigan  
Register on August 15, 2022.  
6
7
8
9
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
As stated in the notice, the proposed new rules  
establish requirements for state licensed homes for the aged  
providers to record, track, and respond to incidents where a  
resident is harmed. These documents must be available to the  
Department upon request during routine inspections or  
complaint investigations.  
Regulatory Impact Statements are available for  
further explanation of these rule sets. Copies are available  
in the hall outside of the auditorium, or they can be found on  
Page 2  
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS BUREAU OF COMMUNITY AND HEALTH SYSTEMS, PUBLIC HEARING  
August 18, 2022  
1
the website for the Michigan Office of Administrative Hearings  
and Rules.  
2
3
Pursuant to section 45 of the Administrative  
4
Procedures Act, MCL 24.245, the public hearing is an  
opportunity for the public to present data, views, questions  
and arguments regarding the proposed rules.  
5
6
7
The Department will use the testimony and documents  
presented at this hearing to determine if any changes should  
be made to the proposed rules before they are adopted. If you  
have comments, please make sure they relate directly to the  
proposed rules. If you have questions regarding the rules,  
please submit your questions as part of your testimony. If  
you have suggested changes to the proposed rules, please  
include the specific reasons why the changes would be in the  
public interest.  
8
9
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
If you wish to comment, please complete a white  
card, available when you came in, and submit it to me. This  
will help the Department prepare the hearing record. When you  
testify, please identify yourself by name and organization, if  
any, that you may be speaking for today.  
Written statements may be submitted directly to me.  
The Department will also accept written statements emailed or  
postmarked until 5 p.m. on August 18th. Address information  
can be found on the notice for the public hearing that we have  
made available in the hall.  
Page 3  
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS BUREAU OF COMMUNITY AND HEALTH SYSTEMS, PUBLIC HEARING  
August 18, 2022  
1
If you would like to testify, please complete the  
card and hand it to me.  
The Department staff from the Bureau of Community  
2
3
4
and Health Systems include myself; Larry Horvath, Director of  
the Bureau of Community and Health Systems; Heather Hosey,  
Director of the Health Facility Licensing, Permit and Support  
Division in the Bureau of Community and Health Systems; and  
Andrea Moore, Manager of the Long Term Care State Licensing  
Section.  
5
6
7
8
9
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
Before we start the public comments, I invite  
Heather Hosey to the podium -- I invite Larry Horvath to the  
podium.  
MR. HORVATH: My name is Larry Horvath with the  
Bureau of Community Health Systems. I just want to do a brief  
update on the proposed changes to the administrative rules.  
The proposed changes were a result of our  
communication with the provider community and their  
associations and the interest for regulatory relief and  
regulatory burden reduction. The proposed rules will allow  
for continued reporting of incidents, but these reports will  
now be maintained at the provider and available upon request  
by the Department or during an inspection and investigation.  
This rule still requires that the providers maintain  
a record of an incident and to take action to correct any  
possible deficient practice, if identified during their  
Page 4  
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS BUREAU OF COMMUNITY AND HEALTH SYSTEMS, PUBLIC HEARING  
August 18, 2022  
1
review. The impetus of this rule will actually help reduce  
the regulatory burden on the provider, while still assuring  
2
3
the health, safety and welfare for our residents.  
MS. BAGBY: Great. Thank you, Larry.  
4
5
We will now begin the public comment time frame.  
Seeing no current public comment, we will take a recess for  
ten minutes and re-adjourn at 9:15.  
6
7
8
(Off the record from 9:05 a.m. until 9:16 a.m.)  
MS. BAGBY: Reconvening and seeing no public  
comment, I am going to close the public hearing at 9:16.  
Thank you for everybody that came. Each comment that we  
receive via email will be considered. Thank you. This  
adjourns the meeting.  
9
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
(Public hearing concluded at 9:16 a.m.)  
-0-0-0-  
Page 5  
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS BUREAU OF COMMUNITY AND HEALTH SYSTEMS, PUBLIC HEARING  
August 18, 2022  
community 1:3,13  
2:4 4:3,5,7,14,17  
complaint 2:22  
complete 3:16 4:1  
concluded 5:14  
conducted 2:10  
considered 5:12  
continued 4:20  
Copies 2:24  
4:4,5,6,7,14 5:3  
hearing 1:8 2:6,10  
2:12 3:4,8,18,24  
5:10,14  
Hearings 3:1  
Heather 4:5,11  
help 3:18 5:1  
homes 1:5 2:7,18  
Horvath 1:12 4:4,11 morning 2:3  
4:13,13  
Hosey 4:5,11  
MCL 3:4  
published 2:12,15  
Pursuant 3:3  
A
meeting 5:13  
Mennen 2:8  
Michigan 1:1,9,14  
2:1,9,15 3:1  
Mining 2:14  
minutes 5:7  
Moore 4:8  
a.m 2:2,7 5:8,8,14  
accept 3:22  
Act 2:11 3:4  
Q
questions 3:5,11,12  
action 4:24  
Address 3:23  
adjourns 5:13  
administrative 1:4  
2:6,11 3:1,3 4:15  
adopted 3:9  
Affairs 1:2,13 2:5  
aged 1:5 2:7,18  
allow 4:19  
R
Rapids 2:14  
re-adjourn 5:7  
reasons 3:14  
receive 5:12  
Corporation 1:16  
correct 4:24  
current 5:6  
N
recess 5:6  
name 2:3 3:19 4:13  
Network 1:16  
new 2:17  
newspapers 2:13  
notice 2:12,15,17  
3:24  
I
Reconvening 5:9  
record 2:19 3:18  
4:24 5:8  
Recorded 1:15  
Recorder 1:16  
reduce 5:1  
reduction 4:19  
regarding 2:6 3:6  
3:11  
Register 2:16  
Registration 1:17  
regulatory 1:2,13  
2:5,23 4:18,19 5:2  
relate 3:10  
D
identified 4:25  
identify 3:19  
Impact 2:23  
analyst 2:4  
Andrea 4:8  
data 3:5  
deficient 4:25  
Department 1:2,12  
2:5,21 3:7,18,22  
4:3,22  
determine 3:8  
directly 3:10,21  
Director 4:4,6  
Division 4:7  
APPEARANCES  
1:11  
arguments 3:6  
associations 4:18  
assuring 5:2  
auditorium 2:8,25  
August 1:9 2:2,8,16  
3:23  
authority 2:10  
available 2:20,23,24  
3:17,25 4:21  
impetus 5:1  
incident 4:24  
incidents 2:19 4:20  
include 3:14 4:4  
information 3:23  
inspection 4:22  
inspections 2:21  
Number 1:17  
O
Office 3:1  
opportunity 3:5  
order 2:7  
organization 3:19  
Ottawa 2:9  
outside 2:25  
documents 2:20 3:7 interest 3:15 4:18  
investigation 4:22  
E
investigations 2:22  
invite 4:10,11  
Electronic 1:16  
email 5:12  
emailed 3:22  
establish 2:18  
everybody 5:11  
explanation 2:24  
relief 4:18  
P
reporting 1:16 4:20  
reports 4:20  
request 2:21 4:21  
requirements 2:18  
requires 4:23  
resident 2:20  
residents 5:3  
respond 2:19  
result 4:16  
B
Bagby 1:12 2:3,3  
5:4,9  
Banks 1:15  
Behalf 1:12  
Box 1:13  
J
P.A 2:11  
p.m 3:23  
P.O 1:13  
part 3:12  
Permit 4:6  
please 3:10,12,13,16  
3:19 4:1  
podium 4:11,12  
possible 4:25  
postmarked 3:23  
practice 4:25  
prepare 3:18  
present 3:5  
presented 3:8  
Press 2:14  
Procedures 2:11 3:4  
proposed 2:17 3:6,9  
3:11,13 4:15,16  
4:19  
provider 4:17,21  
5:2  
providers 2:19 4:23 sets 2:24  
public 1:8 2:12 3:4,5 speaking 3:20  
3:15,24 4:10 5:5,6 specific 3:14  
Journal 2:13,15  
July 2:13,13,14  
K
F
Facility 4:6  
Firm 1:17  
Flint 2:13  
found 2:25 3:24  
frame 5:5  
Karen 1:15  
brief 4:14  
Building 2:8  
burden 4:19 5:2  
Bureau 1:3,13 2:4  
4:3,5,7,14  
L
L 1:15  
Lansing 1:9,14 2:1  
2:9  
Larry 1:12 4:4,11  
4:13 5:4  
licensed 2:18  
Licensing 1:2,13 2:5  
4:6,8  
review 5:1  
routine 2:21  
rule 1:5 2:24 4:23  
5:1  
rules 1:4 2:6,17 3:2  
3:6,9,11,11,13  
4:15,19  
further 2:24  
C
called 2:7  
card 3:17 4:2  
Care 4:8  
G
G 2:8  
going 5:10  
Good 2:3  
Grand 2:14  
Great 5:4  
CER 1:15  
S
safety 5:3  
section 3:3 4:9  
seeing 5:6,9  
SET 1:5  
located 2:9  
Long 4:8  
LR 1:5  
Certified 1:16  
changes 3:8,13,14  
4:15,16  
close 5:10  
comment 3:16 5:5,6  
5:10,11  
comments 3:10 4:10  
communication  
4:17  
H
M
hall 2:25 3:25  
hand 4:2  
harmed 2:20  
health 1:3,13 2:4  
maintain 4:23  
maintained 4:21  
Manager 4:8  
Marquette 2:14  
5:9,10,14  
staff 4:3  
Page 1  
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS BUREAU OF COMMUNITY AND HEALTH SYSTEMS, PUBLIC HEARING  
August 18, 2022  
start 4:10  
state 1:1 2:18 4:8  
stated 2:17  
statements 2:23  
3:21,22  
Street 2:9  
submit 3:12,17  
submitted 3:21  
suggested 3:13  
Support 4:6  
sure 3:10  
1
1-800-632-2720  
1:17  
15 2:16  
18 1:9 2:2,8  
18th 3:23  
1969 2:11  
2
2022 1:9 2:2,16  
2022-21 1:5  
24.245 3:4  
26 2:13  
Systems 1:3,13 2:5  
4:4,5,7,14  
27th 2:13  
28th 2:14  
T
take 4:24 5:6  
Tammy 1:12 2:3  
ten 5:7  
3
306 2:11  
30664 1:13  
3592 1:15  
Term 4:8  
testify 3:19 4:1  
testimony 3:7,12  
Thank 5:4,11,12  
three 2:12  
Thursday 1:9 2:2  
time 5:5  
4
45 3:3  
48909 1:14  
today 3:20  
track 2:19  
5
5 3:23  
525 2:9  
U
update 4:15  
use 3:7  
6
7
V
views 3:5  
8
8151 1:17  
W
want 4:14  
website 3:1  
welfare 5:3  
West 2:9  
white 3:16  
Williams 2:8  
wish 3:16  
9
9 2:7  
9:00 2:2  
9:05 5:8  
9:15 5:7  
9:16 5:8,10,14  
written 3:21,22  
X
Y
Z
0
0-0-0- 5:15  
Page 2  
;