1
2
DEPARTMENT OF STATE POLICE  
Forensic Science Division  
3
Administrative Rules for Tests for Breath Alcohol  
Rule Set 2022-34 SP  
4
5
6
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING  
Tuesday, March 14, 2023  
7
8
1:00 PM  
9
Centennial Room  
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
Michigan State Police Headquarters  
7150 Harris Drive, Dimondale, Michigan 48221  
____________________________________________________________  
Public hearing held in the above-entitled matter, on  
Tuesday, March 14, 2023, at the Michigan State Police  
Headquarters, 7150 Harris Drive, Dimondale, Michigan, at  
1:00 p.m.  
APPEARANCES:  
MR. STEVEN G. BEATTY, P54756  
Michigan State Police  
PO Box 30634  
Lansing, Michigan 48909  
(517) 284-3236  
O'Brien & Bails Court Reporting & Video  
800.878.8750 - Michigan Firm No. 8029  
1
Dimondale, Michigan  
Tuesday, March 14, 2023  
1:00 p.m.  
1
2
3
R E C O R D  
4
MR. BEATTY: This is the public hearing on  
proposed administrative rules titled, "Tests for Breath  
Alcohol." This hearing is being conducted pursuant to  
provisions of Public Act 327 of 1945 and Public Act 300  
of 1949 on behalf of the Michigan Department of State  
Police, Forensic Science Division.  
5
6
7
8
9
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
This hearing is being called to order at 1:00  
p.m., on Tuesday, March 14, 2023, at Michigan State Police  
Headquarters located in Dimondale, Michigan.  
Notice of this hearing was published in three  
newspapers of general circulation as required under MCL  
691.1051, as well as the Michigan Register, Issue #3-2023  
published on March 1, 2023.  
This notice was also made available through the  
newspapers' websites, the Michigan Public Notices website,  
the Michigan State Police Public Meetings website, and was  
posted on the MSP Public Notice board outside of MSP  
Headquarters.  
My name is Steven Beatty, and I will be  
facilitating the hearing today. We are here today to  
receive your comments on the proposed rules. If you wish  
O'Brien & Bails Court Reporting & Video  
800.878.8750 - Michigan Firm No. 8029  
2
to speak, please make sure you have signed in and  
indicated your willingness to speak.  
1
2
We will call on speakers in the order in which  
names are listed on the sign-in sheets. When you come  
forward to speak, please identify yourself with your name  
and the organization you represent, so that this  
information may be transcribed in the hearing report.  
If you have additional comments to submit in  
writing, you may leave them at the registration desk.  
There are no people present wishing to speak at  
this time. We will take a recess.  
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
(Recess taken at 1:04 p.m.)  
(Hearing resumed at 1:05 p.m.)  
MR. BEATTY: We are back on the record today to  
receive comments on the proposed rules related to, "Tests  
for Breath Alcohol." If you wish -- wish to speak,  
please make sure you have signed in and indicated your  
willingness to speak.  
We will call on speakers in the order in which  
the names are listed on the sign-in sheets. When you  
come forward, please identify yourself with your name and  
the organization you represent, so that this information  
may be transcribed in the hearing report.  
If you have additional comments to submit in  
writing, you may leave them at the registration desk.  
O'Brien & Bails Court Reporting & Video  
800.878.8750 - Michigan Firm No. 8029  
3
MR. MARTINEZ: Thank you, all, for the  
opportunity. My name is Aaron Martinez. I am here on  
behalf of the Nichols Law Firm speaking on my own behalf  
and on behalf of Mike Nichols and the attorneys at our  
office.  
1
2
3
4
5
We've had an opportunity to look at the breath  
alcohol rules, the proposed rules. I won't belabor it  
because Mr. Nichols did submit his comments in writing  
today, but a few points that we just wanted to bring up.  
Number one, this instrument that the department  
is -- is considering, the Intox 9000, we've learned from  
other jurisdictions that the instrument has the  
capability to have the histograms printed on the subject  
sample tickets.  
6
7
8
9
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
And we would just put forth that -- that we  
think it's probably a good practice to -- to mandate that  
those be included. It helps the officers who are  
administering the tests to know that they are properly  
being -- or that the sample is properly received by the  
machine, and as well as provides an opportunity if there  
is an -- an issue, for the subject to give another sample  
if need be.  
And secondly, just to note on calibration, we  
were a little bit concerned that the -- the timeline  
seems to be a little bit longer with this particular  
O'Brien & Bails Court Reporting & Video  
800.878.8750 - Michigan Firm No. 8029  
4
machine.  
1
2
We had concerns a few years ago about the --  
the calibrations obviously, that were happening with the  
DataMaster machines throughout the state, and -- and we  
think everybody is in a position where we want to avoid  
any more of those types of controversies.  
3
4
5
6
So, we would just simply ask that the  
7
calibration happen more frequently and -- rather than  
less frequently as it seems that the -- the current rule  
as they are right now would mandate.  
8
9
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
So, those would just be my comments and we  
would rely on Mr. Nichols' submitted comments as well.  
MR. BEATTY: So, if I could ask -- and you  
don't have to answer my question, but we want to make  
sure. The record is open until 5:00 today. Are you  
aware if Mr. Nichols emailed those to the  
MSPForensics@Michigan.gov --  
MR. MARTINEZ: Yes.  
MR. BEATTY: -- or if he mailed them?  
MR. MARTINEZ: Yeah, he emailed them, I  
believe, probably around 11:30 this morning.  
MR. BEATTY: Okay. So, we will look out for  
those and make sure they came -- they come in. And I  
don't know if there is a way to check that before, but  
we'll -- we'll -- we'll keep an eye out for those.  
O'Brien & Bails Court Reporting & Video  
800.878.8750 - Michigan Firm No. 8029  
5
MR. MARTINEZ: Great. Well, we appreciate the  
opportunity, and thanks for holding the hearing.  
MR. BEATTY: No -- no problem. Thank you very  
much. You have a good day.  
1
2
3
4
MR. MARTINEZ: You as well. Thank you.  
MR. BEATTY: If there are no other people  
present wishing to speak at this time, we will take a  
recess.  
5
6
7
8
(Recess taken at 1:07 p.m.)  
9
(Hearing resumed at 1:32 p.m.)  
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
MR. BEATTY: We're back on the record. If  
there are no further comments at this time, I hereby  
declare this hearing and record to be closed. Today is  
12 -- or 1:30 p.m.  
(Hearing concluded at 1:32 p.m.)  
O'Brien & Bails Court Reporting & Video  
800.878.8750 - Michigan Firm No. 8029  
6
STATE OF MICHIGAN)  
) Ss  
COUNTY OF GRATIOT)  
1
2
3
4
5
I certify that I am a Certified Shorthand Reporter doing  
6
business in the State of Michigan; that I reported in  
shorthand the proceedings of said meeting, and the foregoing  
transcript, consisting of 7 pages, is a true and correct  
transcript of my shorthand notes so taken as aforesaid and  
contains the audible proceedings had at said meeting held on  
Tuesday, March 14, 2023.  
7
8
9
10  
11  
12  
13  
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
___  
Notary Public  
Gratiot County, Michigan  
Commission Expires: 10-13-2024  
O'Brien & Bails Court Reporting & Video  
800.878.8750 - Michigan Firm No. 8029  
7
WORD INDEX  
additional 3:8,  
24  
administering  
4:18  
Administrative  
1:4 2:6  
come 3:4, 21  
5:23  
comments  
2:25 3:8, 15,  
24 4:8 5:11,  
12 6:12  
2:10  
know 4:18  
5:24  
forth 4:15  
forward 3:5,  
21  
frequently 5:8, Lansing 1:22  
9
< 1 >  
1 2:17  
1:00 1:9, 19  
2:3, 11  
< L >  
Law 4:3  
1:04 3:12  
1:05 3:13  
1:07 6:9  
1:30 6:14  
1:32 6:10, 15  
10-13-2024  
7:18  
aforesaid 7:10  
ago 5:2  
Commission  
7:18  
concerned  
4:24  
concerns 5:2  
concluded  
6:15  
further 6:12  
learned 4:11  
leave 3:9, 25  
listed 3:4, 20  
little 4:24, 25  
located 2:13  
longer 4:25  
look 4:6 5:22  
Alcohol 1:4  
2:7 3:16 4:7  
answer 5:14  
APPEARANCE  
S 1:20  
< G >  
general 2:15  
give 4:21  
good 4:16  
6:4  
11:30 5:21  
12 6:14  
14 1:8, 17  
2:2, 12 7:12  
1945 2:8  
1949 2:9  
appreciate 6:1  
attorneys 4:4  
audible 7:11  
available 2:18  
avoid 5:5  
conducted 2:7  
considering  
4:11  
consisting 7:9  
contains 7:11  
controversies  
5:6  
correct 7:9  
COUNTY 7:3,  
17  
CSR-5976  
7:16  
GRATIOT 7:3,  
17  
Great 6:1  
< M >  
machine 4:20  
5:1  
machines 5:4  
mailed 5:19  
mandate 4:16  
5:10  
March 1:8, 17  
2:2, 12, 17  
7:12  
MARTINEZ  
4:1, 2 5:18,  
20 6:1, 5  
matter 1:16  
MCL 2:15  
meeting 7:8,  
11  
< H >  
aware 5:16  
happen 5:8  
happening 5:3  
Harris 1:12, 18  
Headquarters  
1:11, 18 2:13,  
22  
HEARING 1:7,  
16 2:5, 7, 11,  
14, 24 3:7, 13,  
23 6:2, 10, 13,  
15  
held 1:16  
7:11  
helps 4:17  
histograms  
4:13  
< 2 >  
< B >  
back 3:14  
6:11  
BEATTY 1:21  
2:5, 23 3:14  
5:13, 19, 22  
6:3, 6, 11  
behalf 2:9  
4:3, 4  
belabor 4:7  
believe 5:21  
bit 4:24, 25  
board 2:21  
Box 1:22  
Breath 1:4  
2:6 3:16 4:6  
bring 4:9  
business 7:7  
2022-34 1:5  
2023 1:8, 17  
2:2, 12, 17  
7:12  
284-3236 1:23  
current 5:9  
< 3 >  
300 2:8  
30634 1:22  
3-2023 2:16  
327 2:8  
< D >  
DataMaster  
5:4  
day 6:4  
declare 6:13  
DEPARTMENT  
1:2 2:9 4:10  
desk 3:9, 25  
Dimondale  
1:12, 18 2:1,  
13  
Division 1:3  
2:10  
doing 7:6  
Drive 1:12, 18  
Meetings 2:20  
Michigan  
< 4 >  
48221 1:12  
48909 1:22  
1:11, 12, 17,  
18, 21, 22 2:1,  
9, 12, 13, 16,  
19, 20 7:1, 7,  
17  
holding 6:2  
< I >  
identify 3:5,  
21  
included 4:17  
indicated 3:2,  
17  
information  
3:7, 22  
< 5 >  
5:00 5:15  
517 1:23  
Mike 4:4  
< C >  
morning 5:21  
MSP 2:21  
MSPForensics  
calibration  
4:23 5:8  
calibrations  
5:3  
< 6 >  
691.1051 2:16  
< E >  
@Michigan.gov  
< 7 >  
7 7:9  
7150 1:12, 18  
call 3:3, 19  
called 2:11  
capability  
4:13  
Centennial  
1:10  
Certified 7:6  
certify 7:6  
check 5:24  
circulation  
2:15  
emailed 5:16,  
20  
everybody 5:5  
Expires 7:18  
eye 5:25  
instrument  
4:10, 12  
Intox 4:11  
Issue 2:16  
4:21  
5:17  
< N >  
name 2:23  
3:5, 21 4:2  
names 3:4, 20  
need 4:22  
newspapers  
2:15, 19  
Nichols 4:3, 4,  
8 5:12, 16  
Notary 7:17  
< 9 >  
9000 4:11  
< F >  
facilitating  
2:24  
Firm 4:3  
foregoing 7:8  
Forensic 1:3  
< J >  
jurisdictions  
4:12  
< A >  
Aaron 4:2  
above-entitled  
1:16  
< K >  
keep 5:25  
Act 2:8  
closed 6:13  
O'Brien & Bails Court Reporting & Video  
800.878.8750 - Michigan Firm No. 8029  
1
note 4:23  
PUBLIC 1:7,  
16 2:5, 8, 19,  
20, 21 7:17  
published  
2:14, 17  
pursuant 2:7  
put 4:15  
speakers 3:3,  
19  
speaking 4:3  
Ss 7:2  
STATE 1:2,  
11, 17, 21 2:9,  
12, 20 5:4  
7:1, 7  
STEVEN 1:21  
2:23  
subject 4:13,  
21  
submit 3:8,  
24 4:8  
submitted  
5:12  
sure 3:1, 17  
5:15, 23  
well 2:16  
4:20 5:12  
6:1, 5  
We're 6:11  
We've 4:6, 11  
willingness  
3:2, 18  
wish 2:25  
3:16  
wishing 3:10  
6:7  
notes 7:10  
NOTICE 1:7  
2:14, 18, 21  
Notices 2:19  
Nowak 7:16  
Number 4:10  
< O >  
< Q >  
question 5:14  
obviously 5:3  
office 4:5  
officers 4:17  
Okay 5:22  
open 5:15  
opportunity  
4:2, 6, 20 6:2  
order 2:11  
3:3, 19  
< R >  
receive 2:25  
3:15  
writing 3:9,  
25 4:8  
received 4:19  
recess 3:11,  
12 6:8, 9  
record 3:14  
5:15 6:11, 13  
Register 2:16  
registration  
3:9, 25  
related 3:15  
rely 5:12  
report 3:7, 23  
reported 7:7  
Reporter 7:6  
represent 3:6,  
< Y >  
Yeah 5:20  
years 5:2  
organization  
3:6, 22  
outside 2:21  
< T >  
take 3:11 6:7  
taken 3:12  
6:9 7:10  
Tests 1:4 2:6  
3:15 4:18  
Thank 4:1  
6:3, 5  
thanks 6:2  
think 4:16  
5:5  
three 2:14  
tickets 4:14  
time 3:11 6:7,  
12  
< P >  
p.m 1:19 2:3,  
12 3:12, 13  
6:9, 10, 14, 15  
P54756 1:21  
pages 7:9  
particular 4:25 22  
people 3:10  
6:6  
required 2:15  
resumed 3:13  
6:10  
right 5:10  
Room 1:10  
Rule 1:5 5:9  
Rules 1:4  
2:6, 25 3:15  
4:7  
please 3:1, 5,  
17, 21  
PM 1:9  
PO 1:22  
timeline 4:24  
titled 2:6  
today 2:24  
3:14 4:9  
points 4:9  
POLICE 1:2,  
11, 17, 21  
2:10, 12, 20  
position 5:5  
posted 2:21  
practice 4:16  
present 3:10  
6:7  
5:15 6:13  
transcribed  
3:7, 23  
transcript 7:9,  
10  
< S >  
sample 4:14,  
19, 21  
Science 1:3  
2:10  
true 7:9  
printed 4:13  
probably 4:16  
5:21  
problem 6:3  
proceedings  
7:8, 11  
secondly 4:23  
Set 1:5  
sheets 3:4, 20  
Shelly 7:16  
Shorthand  
7:6, 8, 10  
Tuesday 1:8,  
17 2:2, 12  
7:12  
types 5:6  
< W >  
properly 4:18,  
19  
proposed 2:6,  
25 3:15 4:7  
provides 4:20  
provisions 2:8  
signed 3:1, 17  
sign-in 3:4, 20  
simply 5:7  
SP 1:5  
speak 3:1, 2,  
5, 10, 16, 18  
6:7  
want 5:5, 14  
wanted 4:9  
way 5:24  
website 2:19,  
20  
websites 2:19  
O'Brien & Bails Court Reporting & Video  
800.878.8750 - Michigan Firm No. 8029  
2
;