In the Matter Of:  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
PUBLIC HEARING  
November 13, 2025  
PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
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·1· ·MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS  
·2  
·3· ·IN RE:· PROPOSED REVISIONS TO  
· · ·THE SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
·4· ·RULES.  
·5  
·6· · · · · · · · · · ·2025 SKI AREA SAFETY  
·7· · · · · · · · · · · · PUBLIC HEARING  
·8  
·9· · · · · · · · · · · November 13, 2025  
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11· · · · · · · · · · · · · 1:03 p.m.  
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13· · · · · · · · · · · ·Ottawa Building  
· · · · · · · · · · · 611 West Ottawa Street  
14· · · · · · · · Upper Level, Conference Room 3  
· · · · · · · · · · ·Lansing, Michigan 48933  
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· · ·RECORDED BY:· · · · · Andrew Martz, CER 16194  
24· · · · · · · · · · · · ·Certified Electronic Recorder  
· · · · · · · · · · · · Â· ·Esquire Deposition Solutions  
25· · · · · · · · · · · · ·Firm Registration Number 8035  
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November 13, 2025  
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·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·APPEARANCES  
·2  
·3· ·State of Michigan Panel:  
·4· · · · · · · · · · · · Greg Ohlemacher  
· · · · · · · · · · · · · Daniela Pelachyk  
·5· · · · · · · · · · · · Keith Lambert  
· · · · · · · · · · · · · Andrew Brisbo  
·6· · · · · · · · · · · · Shannon Maurer  
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· · ·Speaking Public Members:  
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· · · · · · · · · · · · · Charlie Gano  
·9· · · · · · · · · · · · John Melcher  
· · · · · · · · · · · · · Mike Panich  
10· · · · · · · · · · · · Jack Deegan  
· · · · · · · · · · · · · Dana Carnevale  
11· · · · · · · · · · · · Jonathan Davis  
· · · · · · · · · · · · · Timothy Meyer  
12· · · · · · · · · · · · Benjamin Doornbos  
· · · · · · · · · · · · · Chip Perfect  
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·1· · · · · · · · · · · TABLE OF CONTENTS  
·2  
·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE  
·4· ·Opening Remarks by Ms. Pelachyk· · · · · · · · · · · ·4  
·5· ·Public Comment  
·6· · · Charlie Gano· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Â· · ·6  
· · · · John Melcher· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Â· · ·8  
·7· · · Mike Panich· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 9  
· · · · Jack Deegan· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Â· · ·11  
·8· · · Dana Carnevale· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 13  
· · · · Jonathan Davis· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 15  
·9· · · Timothy Meyer· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·17  
· · · · Benjamin Doornbos· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·17  
10· · · Chip Perfect· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 18  
11· ·Adjournment· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 21  
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·1· · · · · · ·Lansing, Michigan  
·2· · · · · · ·Thursday, November 13, 2025 - 1:03 p.m.  
·3· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Hello, everyone.· This is  
·4· ·a public hearing on proposed administrative rules  
·5· ·entitled Ski Area Safety General Rules.· This  
·6· ·hearing is being conducted by the Michigan  
·7· ·Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs  
·8· ·pursuant to the provisions of the Michigan  
·9· ·Administrative Procedures Act, 1969, PA 306;  
10· ·Section 4 of 1972 PA 230; MCL 125.1504; and  
11· ·Executive Reorganization Order numbers 1991-9,  
12· ·1996-2, 2003-1, 2008-4, 2011-4, and 2024-2; MCL  
13· ·338.3501, 445.2001, 445.2011, 445.2025, 445.2030,  
14· ·and 16.735.  
15· · · · · · ·The purpose of this hearing is to gain  
16· ·public input on the proposed revisions to the Ski  
17· ·Area Safety General Rules.· All comments will be  
18· ·recorded and become part of the record.· The  
19· ·department then reviews all testimony before making  
20· ·a final decision on the content of the rules.· This  
21· ·hearing is being called to order at 1:03 today,  
22· ·November 13th, 2025, at the offices of the Bureau  
23· ·of Construction Codes, 630 West Ottawa Street,  
24· ·Lansing, Michigan, in the Upper Level Conference  
25· ·Room 3.· This hearing was published in the Michigan  
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·1· ·Register, Issue number 19, and in the following  
·2· ·newspapers of general circulation:· The Mining  
·3· ·Journal on October 20th, 2025, and The Morning Sun  
·4· ·and Oakland Press on October 21st, 2025.  
·5· · · · · · ·My name is Daniela Pelachyk, and I am the  
·6· ·facilitator for this hearing.· This is the only  
·7· ·public hearing being conducted on these rules.  
·8· ·Please know we are here today to receive your  
·9· ·comments on the proposed rules.· If you wish to  
10· ·speak, please make sure you have signed in and  
11· ·indicated your willingness to speak.· We will call  
12· ·on speakers in the order in which the names are  
13· ·listed on the sign-in sheets.  
14· · · · · · ·Each speaker is limited to three minutes.  
15· ·When you come forward to speak, please identify  
16· ·yourself with your name as well as the organization  
17· ·you represent so this information may be  
18· ·transcribed in the hearing report.· If you have  
19· ·additional comments to submit in writing, you may  
20· ·leave them at the registration desk or submit them  
21· ·to our department no later than 5:00 p.m. today,  
22· ·November 13th, 2025.· Please silence all electronic  
23· ·devices.  
24· · · · · · ·Okay.· So our first speaker is going to  
25· ·be Charlie Gano.  
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·1· · · · · · ·MR. GANO:· I don't know if I want to be  
·2· ·first, but.· Thanks for having us.· I have already  
·3· ·submitted -- I think my thoughts about this rule  
·4· ·process and the rescission are well known through  
·5· ·various conversations I've had with members of the  
·6· ·department.· So I wanted to couch this a little  
·7· ·differently than just addressing the rule.· And I  
·8· ·decided I would call it passion and pride.· And  
·9· ·it's not a football locker room lecture.· It's  
10· ·about what I've experienced most recently.· And  
11· ·Keith Lambert gave me the idea about passion and  
12· ·Greg, along with Keith, for passion and then the  
13· ·written submissions that we've seen for the issue  
14· ·of pride and the industry being proud of what we do  
15· ·and how we do it.  
16· · · · · · ·So I put that in the context that --  
17· ·you've seen from the written response of -- you --  
18· ·you've seen about the rule.· You've heard it in  
19· ·general comments at various board meetings and  
20· ·other locales about the passion that is felt in our  
21· ·industry for the safety of the general public and  
22· ·how we go about trying to do our best job in  
23· ·assuring that.· There are no guarantees.· Nothing  
24· ·is ever perfect.  
25· · · · · · ·But the guidance that we receive through  
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·1· ·the rules and regs and the oversight that we  
·2· ·receive from the department makes our jobs easier  
·3· ·and possible to accomplish that goal.· So we want  
·4· ·the Bureau to feel our passion.· I think you do.  
·5· ·We want you to feel the pride that we have in the  
·6· ·way that the industry goes about having these rules  
·7· ·in place, having the assistance from the department  
·8· ·and this regulatory system to help us do those  
·9· ·jobs.· And that's just such an important part of  
10· ·what we do.  
11· · · · · · ·And I wanted to highlight, you know,  
12· ·there -- you've gotten some great written  
13· ·submissions.· Dana Carnevale has done a great job  
14· ·in presenting to you the feelings from Professional  
15· ·Ski Instructors of America, the National Ski Patrol  
16· ·Association.· And I was -- and you recently should  
17· ·have, and I hope if you haven't read it, you'll get  
18· ·a chance to soon, a letter submitted by Dave Byrd,  
19· ·who those of us in the industry are very acquainted  
20· ·with.· He's the director of risk and regulatory  
21· ·affairs for the National Ski Areas Association.· He  
22· ·works in ski areas all across the United States  
23· ·and, in fact, all across the world.· And he tells  
24· ·you how important this -- these rules are and  
25· ·maintaining these controls, how important that is  
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·1· ·for our industry, and that Michigan is a leader in  
·2· ·this, that we are the gold standard that the rest  
·3· ·of the United States follows --  
·4· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Sir.  
·5· · · · · · ·MR. GANO:· So --  
·6· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· I'm sorry to interrupt.  
·7· ·But yeah, the three minutes is up.  
·8· · · · · · ·MR. GANO:· Okay.· I'm done and thank you  
·9· ·very much.  
10· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Thank you.  
11· · · · · · ·MR. BRISBO:· Thank you.· Can you state  
12· ·your name for the record?  
13· · · · · · ·MR. GANO:· Oh, I'm sorry.· I'm Charlie  
14· ·Gano.· I am general counsel for Boyne USA, having  
15· ·practiced law in the state of Michigan for 50 years  
16· ·now.· I'm dating myself, so --  
17· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Thank you.· Okay.  
18· · · · · · ·Next speaker I have is John Melcher.  
19· · · · · · ·MR. MELCHER:· Hey.· Good afternoon.  
20· ·Yeah.· My name is John Melcher, and I'm the CEO of  
21· ·Crystal Mountain in Northern Michigan.· I'm also a  
22· ·member of the National Ski Patrol and also  
23· ·Professional Ski Instructors of America.· Safety is  
24· ·paramount to our industry, something that we  
25· ·constantly strive to improve.· The Ski Area Safety  
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·1· ·Act and the Ski Area General Rules are important  
·2· ·foundational components of our safety efforts.· And  
·3· ·the proposal to rescind Rule 408.62 regarding  
·4· ·motor -- motorized vehicles on ski slopes, runs, or  
·5· ·trails open to the public is in direct conflict to  
·6· ·safety, and I feel should be rejected.  
·7· · · · · · ·You know, the rule is common sense.· It's  
·8· ·proven to assist in protecting the safety of the  
·9· ·general public, our skier population, as well as  
10· ·our employees.· And I'm also aware that there's  
11· ·been an alternative proposal proposed that's been  
12· ·submitted by members of the general public and the  
13· ·ski industry, which I certainly encourage the  
14· ·Bureau to consider and ultimately accept.· So thank  
15· ·you for your consideration, and thank you for the  
16· ·opportunity to speak with you today.  
17· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Thank you.  
18· · · · · · ·Next I have Mike Panich.  
19· · · · · · ·MR. PANICH:· Good afternoon and thank you  
20· ·for the opportunity to speak today.· My name is  
21· ·Mike Panich, and I'm the executive director of the  
22· ·Michigan Snow Sports Industries Association,  
23· ·representing Michigan ski areas, retailers, and  
24· ·suppliers, the businesses that keep our state's  
25· ·winter economy thriving.  
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·1· · · · · · ·I want to address the proposed rescission  
·2· ·of the motorized vehicle rule within the Ski Area  
·3· ·Safety Act.· Quite simply, removing this rule would  
·4· ·create unnecessary danger for the skiing and  
·5· ·snowboarding public and threaten the operational  
·6· ·stability of an industry that contributes millions  
·7· ·each winter to Michigan's tourism economy.  
·8· ·Motorized vehicles, from snowmobiles to snowcats,  
·9· ·are essential tools in maintaining safe and  
10· ·enjoyable slopes, but without clear standards  
11· ·governing their use, we risk accidents and  
12· ·confusion about operational responsibility.  
13· · · · · · ·These are large, heavy machines operating  
14· ·in the same guests -- areas as guests.· Clear,  
15· ·enforceable safety expectations are not optional;  
16· ·they are essential.· Instead of rescinding the  
17· ·rule, we urge LARA to retain it and to make one  
18· ·clarification.· Compliance with this rule should  
19· ·rest squarely on the ski area operators as it  
20· ·always has and not on LARA for inspection or  
21· ·enforcement.· The intent of this rule was never to  
22· ·burden the department but rather to ensure that  
23· ·operators uphold uniform industry standard  
24· ·practices.  
25· · · · · · ·Our industry's record of safety and self-  
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·1· ·regulation is strong, but the framework provided by  
·2· ·this rule is what helps keep it this way.· Removing  
·3· ·it would not reduce regulation.· It would reduce  
·4· ·protection for our guests, our employees, and our  
·5· ·reputation as a safe, well-managed -- well-managed  
·6· ·winter destination.  
·7· · · · · · ·On behalf of the Michigan Snow Sports  
·8· ·Industries Association, MSIA, I respectfully urge  
·9· ·you to keep the motorized vehicle rule in place and  
10· ·preserve the balance between safety,  
11· ·responsibility, and practicality that has served  
12· ·Michigan well for so many decades.· Thank you for  
13· ·your time and consideration.  
14· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Thank you.  
15· · · · · · ·Next I have Jack Deegan.  
16· · · · · · ·MR. DEEGAN:· Good afternoon.· So my name  
17· ·is Jack Deegan.· I am an attorney.· I come in  
18· ·peace.· I am in a lucky position because I'm a  
19· ·skier and it's something I've had a passion for, to  
20· ·follow-up on what Charlie Gano stated.· I've been a  
21· ·skier since I've been little.· And about 20, 25  
22· ·years ago, I was lucky enough to start representing  
23· ·many resorts in the ski industry.· And I have a  
24· ·very strong knowledge of the Ski Area Safety Act  
25· ·and the rules and regulations.· And to dovetail on  
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·1· ·what Charlie Gano who -- had spoken about is our  
·2· ·Ski Area Safety Act is the gold standard.· Having  
·3· ·been created in 1962, it was the first one.· And it  
·4· ·has been modeled.· It has been followed by all the  
·5· ·other states that have a Ski Area Safety Act.  
·6· ·Within the act, we have the rules and regulations  
·7· ·which have made my job easier because it is a  
·8· ·roadmap to how a ski resort should be run and  
·9· ·behave and how a skier should ski and behave.  
10· · · · · · ·And my perspective is not from a  
11· ·standpoint that the rules and regs prevent  
12· ·lawsuits, which it does, but that's a -- that's a  
13· ·nice byproduct from what they really do.· They  
14· ·promote safety and a guideline that's very clear.  
15· ·But I am involved in other areas of law, but none  
16· ·of them have the focus on safety like skiing does.  
17· ·We have meetings constantly with all these people  
18· ·in the room and we preach safety, safety, safety.  
19· ·What can we do to better the sport?· How can we  
20· ·keep it -- so -- and it works.· And it has worked.  
21· · · · · · ·And so with that being stated, I think we  
22· ·need to be stewards of what is a very important  
23· ·industry in our state, but also to make sure we  
24· ·ensure safety.· So I know you do your job well.  
25· ·I -- and you do have a lot of voices in this room.  
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·1· ·But I want to make sure that we do all we can to  
·2· ·maintain safety and that's why we're here.· And so  
·3· ·I appreciate your time.  
·4· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Thank you.  
·5· · · · · · ·Next I have Dana Carnevale.  
·6· · · · · · ·MR. CARNEVALE:· Carnevale.  
·7· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Carnevale, sorry.  
·8· · · · · · ·MR. CARNEVALE:· It gets messed up a lot.  
·9· ·I am Dana Carnevale.· I am from Crystal Mountain.  
10· ·I'm lift operations manager there, and I'm also a  
11· ·member of the National Ski Patrol and the  
12· ·Professional Ski Instructors of America.· I, too,  
13· ·am passionate about these proposed changes, as some  
14· ·of you on the board know.· The opening lines of the  
15· ·Ski Area Safety Act of 1962 states, "An act to  
16· ·provide for the inspection, licensing, and  
17· ·regulation of ski areas and ski lifts to provide  
18· ·for the safety of skiers, spectators, and public  
19· ·using ski areas."  
20· · · · · · ·The regulation of ski areas is an all-  
21· ·encompassing term covering daily operations, which  
22· ·includes the use of motorized vehicles.· The core  
23· ·of this act for Michigan ski area owners is to  
24· ·protect the health, safety, and welfare of the  
25· ·public by remaining current with the industry's  
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·1· ·best practices.· The rescinding of this rule is  
·2· ·contrary to the foundation on which this act was  
·3· ·written.· The current rules requiring consistent  
·4· ·visual and auditory warnings from motorized  
·5· ·vehicles provide a reliable and universally  
·6· ·understood system for alerting skiers and  
·7· ·snowboarders of approaching traffic.· This system  
·8· ·is integral to how our ski areas conduct business  
·9· ·on a day-to-day basis.  
10· · · · · · ·I'm aware of an alternative proposal that  
11· ·has been submitted by members of the general public  
12· ·and the ski area industry.· The alternative  
13· ·accomplishes the task of clarifying the duties of  
14· ·the ski area operator and those activities of which  
15· ·are subject to inspection and enforcement by the  
16· ·Bureau of Construction Codes.· It preserves all the  
17· ·important guidance of the operation of authorized  
18· ·vehicles.· I strongly encourage the Bureau to  
19· ·accept these proposed modifications as set forth.  
20· · · · · · ·Given the proven effectiveness of the  
21· ·current system and the lack of compelling reason to  
22· ·change it, I respectfully urge you to reconsider  
23· ·the proposed amendments.· I ask that you maintain  
24· ·the current safety protocols with the proposed  
25· ·changes and -- that have served the snow sport  
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·1· ·industry so effectively over all these years.  
·2· · · · · · ·I would also like to present letters from  
·3· ·Ron Shepard, who is the CEO of the PSIA Central  
·4· ·Division; Stephanie Cox, who is the CEO of the  
·5· ·National Ski Patrol; and also I have 14 letters  
·6· ·with over 80 signatures from the Crystal Mountain  
·7· ·Ski Patrol, who collectively disagree with the  
·8· ·current proposal.· Thank you for your time and  
·9· ·consideration.  
10· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Thank you.  
11· · · · · · ·MR. LAMBERT:· Thank you.  
12· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· I appreciate it.  
13· · · · · · ·Next I have Jonathan Davis.  
14· · · · · · ·MR. DAVIS:· Good afternoon.· My name is  
15· ·Jonathan Davis.· I'm executive director of Swiss  
16· ·Valley in Jones, Michigan.· Also a member of the  
17· ·Midwest Ski Areas Association Board, serving out  
18· ·the finality of my chairman term.· Also a member of  
19· ·the National Ski Areas Association Board.· And in  
20· ·my day-to-day, I'm the general manager of Perfect  
21· ·North Slopes.· Been in the industry for 33 years  
22· ·and have -- I've seen a lot of what the industry  
23· ·has done for the public and vice versa.  
24· · · · · · ·I would like to ask you to reconsider the  
25· ·proposed rescission of Article 62 for the sake of  
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·1· ·the clarity that it provides but also in light of  
·2· ·the long history that the Michigan Ski Area Safety  
·3· ·Act has provided, not just for Michigan, but as a  
·4· ·template in a lot of other states.· We have  
·5· ·ownership that -- I'm the executive director of  
·6· ·Timberline Mountain in West Virginia.· And I don't  
·7· ·know if you're familiar, but the language is almost  
·8· ·a carbon copy of that of Michigan.· And I think a  
·9· ·lot of states have used Michigan's Ski Safety Act  
10· ·as a template.  
11· · · · · · ·I know that the insurance providers and  
12· ·the operators have relied on some of the standards  
13· ·that have been written as the high bar upon which  
14· ·that we choose to operate, that we train on  
15· ·multiple times throughout the year, both in-person  
16· ·at our annual conferences but also through webinars  
17· ·and through micro meetings of regional areas,  
18· ·especially here in Michigan.  
19· · · · · · ·I think that there's a certain amount of  
20· ·risk that gets introduced, not only to the area  
21· ·level but possibly even to the state level, should  
22· ·this be rescinded and there's ambiguity in how the  
23· ·Ski Area Safety Act is interpreted with that under  
24· ·this proposal.· So I just ask again that you  
25· ·reconsider the rescission and appreciate your time.  
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·1· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Thank you.  
·2· · · · · · ·MR. LAMBERT:· Thank you.  
·3· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Timothy P. Meyer.  
·4· · · · · · ·MR. MEYER:· I'm going to pass.  
·5· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· You're going to pass.  
·6· ·Okay.  
·7· · · · · · ·Benjamin --  
·8· · · · · · ·MR. LAMBERT:· Doornbos.  
·9· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Doornbos?  
10· · · · · · ·MR. DOORNBOS:· It's good.· Benjamin  
11· ·Doornbos.· I'm the general manager at Nubs Nob Ski  
12· ·Area.· I'm also on the MSIA and a member of the  
13· ·National Ski Areas Association.· I've been the  
14· ·general manager of Nubs Nob Ski Area for eight  
15· ·years now, and I've worked in the industry for over  
16· ·15.  
17· · · · · · ·I would like to echo my colleagues.· And  
18· ·we would like to have the rescission -- we would  
19· ·not like to have the motor vehicle Rule 408.62  
20· ·rescinded.· And I just thought I would take a  
21· ·minute to talk to you about this from an operator  
22· ·standpoint.· Last night, we had our employee  
23· ·training at Nubs Nob Ski Area.· Nubs Nob employs  
24· ·over 300 employees in the wintertime.· And last  
25· ·night we had the training for all these folks.  
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PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
18  
·1· · · · · · ·Part of the training is snowmobile  
·2· ·safety, and we literally pull this piece of paper  
·3· ·out and read it to all of our employees.· It gives  
·4· ·us a standard.· And I feel that without the  
·5· ·standard being present, it would take back the  
·6· ·safety on the slopes, both for the employee and for  
·7· ·the skiers on the slopes.· So we ask that you  
·8· ·reconsider here and allow Rule 408.62 to stand.  
·9· ·Thank you.  
10· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Thank you.  
11· · · · · · ·MR. LAMBERT:· Okay.· Thank you.  
12· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Before I formally conclude  
13· ·today's hearing, I would like to first ask if  
14· ·there's anyone who has not indicated a desire to  
15· ·comment but would like to do so.· If so, you may  
16· ·take this opportunity to speak now.  
17· · · · · · ·MR. PERFECT:· I will.  
18· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Okay.  
19· · · · · · ·MR. PERFECT:· I thought I had indicated  
20· ·that I wanted to speak.· I'm sorry.  
21· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Okay.· No, it's okay.  
22· · · · · · ·MR. PERFECT:· I'm Chip Perfect.· I have a  
23· ·title.· I don't know what it is anymore, but I've  
24· ·been in the ski business for 45 years, and I think  
25· ·that gives me seniority here.· Recently, just  
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PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
19  
·1· ·coming to Michigan as we acquired Swiss Valley Ski  
·2· ·Area.· So I've been the past president of the  
·3· ·National Ski Areas Association, the only guy in the  
·4· ·Midwest who have been that.· I've been the chairman  
·5· ·of the Midwest Ski Areas Association.· And I'm the  
·6· ·designated guy to wear a sport coat because I  
·7· ·think, in the ski industry, I'm the only guy that  
·8· ·owns one because I also spent nine years in the  
·9· ·Indiana legislature, where they make you wear one.  
10· · · · · · ·So I just wanted to make a couple quick  
11· ·comments.· The comment that was made that the work  
12· ·that this Ski Area Safety Board in Michigan has  
13· ·done has been the gold standard is absolutely true,  
14· ·as I have been involved with skiers in a lot of  
15· ·places.· It's also been a model that -- I think the  
16· ·comment was made that you should be very proud of  
17· ·because Michigan has been a leader in this area and  
18· ·set a standard that we all try to live up to. I  
19· ·would say that I have read the language and I  
20· ·certainly, as a new operator in Michigan, support  
21· ·the language that the Ski Area Safety Board is  
22· ·recommending so we can have continuity and  
23· ·consistency in the language in something that has  
24· ·worked really well.  
25· · · · · · ·You know, the -- my last two comments  
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SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
20  
·1· ·would be having been in the ski industry for a  
·2· ·long, long time, 46 years now, that when we make  
·3· ·changes at the individual area level, I always say  
·4· ·to people, gosh, you know, we don't know how this  
·5· ·is going to work until we add live people to the  
·6· ·scenario.· And I would say that allowing those  
·7· ·people who are closest to the folks that are  
·8· ·participating in our activity to continue to guide  
·9· ·you and provide support for you on how the  
10· ·decisions are made is imperative.· Because live  
11· ·people in these situations with these statutes,  
12· ·what they do and how they respond to them is  
13· ·changing as we get new generations and they just  
14· ·look at things differently.  
15· · · · · · ·So continuing to have decision-making  
16· ·input for you, I think, is critical from the folks  
17· ·that are on the front lines of what is happening  
18· ·here because it is a rapidly changing world, as you  
19· ·know.· And I would, again, like to support the  
20· ·efforts of the Ski Safety Board and the language  
21· ·that they have put forward as a good piece of  
22· ·guidance for you and the rest of the skiers in the  
23· ·country.· So thank you.  
24· · · · · · ·MS. PELACHYK:· Yeah.· Thank you.  
25· · · · · · ·Following that, I would like to provide  
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PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
21  
·1· ·an opportunity for rebuttal.· Any individual who  
·2· ·wishes to respond to comments that have already  
·3· ·been presented may do so at this time.· Each  
·4· ·speaker would be allotted one minute.· Please note  
·5· ·that this rebuttal period is strictly limited to  
·6· ·addressing matters that have already been raised  
·7· ·during the course of the hearing.· No new topics or  
·8· ·issues may be introduced at this stage.  
·9· · · · · · ·Okay.· So if there's no further comments  
10· ·at this time, I hereby declare the hearing closed.  
11· ·The record will remain open until 5:00 p.m. today,  
12· ·November 13th, 2025, for additional written  
13· ·comments on the proposed rules.· Please monitor the  
14· ·Bureau's website for updated information regarding  
15· ·the rule set.  
16· · · · · · ·Thank you all for coming.  
17· · · · · · ·(Hearing concluded at 1:23 p.m.)  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
800.211.DEPO (3376)  
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PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
22  
·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·CERTIFICATE  
·2  
·3· · · · · · ·I, ANDREW MARTZ, a Certified Electronic  
·4· ·Recorder and Notary Public within and for the State of  
·5· ·Michigan do hereby certify:  
·6· · · · · · ·That this transcript consisting of 21 pages,  
·7· ·is a complete, true, and correct record of the testimony  
·8· ·given in this hearing on November 13, 2025.  
·9· · · · · · ·I further certify that I am not related to any  
10· ·of the parties to this action by blood or marriage; and  
11· ·that I am not interested in the outcome of this matter,  
12· ·financial or otherwise.  
13· · · · · · ·IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my  
14· ·hand this 21st day of November 2025.  
15  
16  
17· · · · · · ·___________________________  
· · · · · · · ·ANDREW MARTZ CER 16194  
18· · · · · · ·Notary Public, State of Michigan  
· · · · · · · ·County of Washtenaw  
19· · · · · · ·My commission expires: January 13, 2031  
20  
21  
22  
23  
24  
25  
800.211.DEPO (3376)  
EsquireSolutions.com  
PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
Index: 125.1504..area  
4:12  
18:8  
9:14  
14:19  
8:19 9:19  
11:16  
15:14  
1
4:12  
4:13  
10:11  
14:6  
4:10  
4:12  
4:13  
7:3  
13:20  
4:2  
4:12  
4:13  
14:13  
21:4  
4:22 5:22  
4:2,22  
4:13  
21:12  
5:3,4,22  
21:12  
5:3  
5:4  
7:19  
20:6  
18:24  
15:5  
9:11  
19:1  
20:2  
14:10,12  
17:16  
4:9 9:1  
10:3  
11:24  
12:2,5,6  
13:15,23  
14:2  
5
16:22  
4:14  
4:10  
14:23  
5:1  
8:15  
11:21  
7:15 8:23  
13:12  
12:3  
13:15  
5:21  
21:11  
16:3,9,23  
3
14:14  
16:19  
4:9  
6
4:25  
20:8  
16:16  
4:10  
17:24  
15:25  
20:5  
18:23  
4:11  
4:9  
5:19  
4:23  
14:7  
4:12  
21:12  
15:21  
8
4:5,17  
4:2,21  
10:1  
8:25 9:1  
10:2,19  
11:24  
4:13  
21:17  
15:6  
6:7 21:6  
12:2,5  
4
13:15,23  
14:12,14  
16:2,20,  
23 17:12,  
14,23  
2
A
4:4,9  
4:10  
11:21  
19:13  
4:7 7:21  
9:3 17:19  
19:2,12,  
800.211.DEPO (3376)  
EsquireSolutions.com  
PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
Index: areas..continuity  
17,21  
20:3  
11:10  
14:13  
21:17  
C
7:21,22  
9:23  
10:14  
16:13  
16:1  
14:8  
5:11 6:8  
14:9  
10:10,14  
12:14  
4:6 5:7  
12:15  
4:21  
13:17,19,  
20 14:8  
15:17,19  
16:17  
17:13  
19:3,5  
11:7  
4:24  
21:10  
16:8  
12:9  
16:16  
7:13  
20:7  
13:5,6,7,  
8,9  
17:7,10  
9:5  
19:6  
15:25  
6:19  
13:14  
15:17,19  
19:12,21  
20:20  
4:23  
10:12  
15:3  
9:8  
14:16  
8:20  
15:3,4  
9:15  
11:13  
15:9  
7:7  
17:17  
15:18  
7:16,21  
9:22 11:8  
15:17,19  
17:13  
8:14  
19:4  
15:7  
19:23  
8:11  
18:15  
7:18  
14:3  
19:3,5  
10:22  
19:11,16  
8:25  
14:22  
4:22 7:4  
9:14  
4:17 5:9,  
19 6:19  
6:23  
12:17  
20:13,18  
11:17  
14:16,18  
19:11,25  
21:2,9,13  
5:25 8:13  
11:20  
4:23  
14:16  
14:4  
21:14  
9:7  
12:1  
14:8  
14:17  
4:20  
18:24  
14:21  
18:22  
9:10  
6:16  
14:10  
9:24  
10:18  
16:14  
20:8  
B
12:13  
9:2  
5:2  
20:15  
7:18  
18:12  
18:5  
10:18  
19:22  
800.211.DEPO (3376)  
EsquireSolutions.com  
PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
Index: contrary..formally  
5:21 6:6 economy  
14:2  
7:2,7  
10:22  
9:25 10:7  
15:1  
4:11 9:21  
15:15  
16:5  
D
10:6  
13:21  
19:6  
7:25  
10:15  
18:14  
14:20  
7:13  
13:5,9  
6:10  
6:5  
5:20  
9:2 20:20  
10:4  
F
16:8  
11:6  
5:22  
5:5  
17:22  
13:22  
5:23  
5:6  
18:6  
8:16  
6:6  
6:7 20:14 employees  
7:23  
9:10 11:4  
17:24  
18:3  
7:18  
8:14  
9:5  
16:7  
15:13,14,  
15  
20:23  
7:20 9:21  
15:15  
16:5  
17:23  
7:4,5 9:6  
18:4  
14:9  
19:10  
15:20  
13:21  
7:14  
15:7  
13:21  
9:13  
11:12  
6:20  
15:4  
15:4  
14:18  
6:8  
17:8,9,  
10,11  
4:20  
10:4  
10:15  
4:20  
10:21  
15:18  
12:3  
11:25  
14:15  
20:15  
12:16  
20:16  
14:13  
10:10  
8:21 13:9  
15:6  
20:10  
17:25  
20:7,16  
10:22  
12:24  
E
21:10  
13:25  
11:20  
11:15,16,  
17  
7:2 12:7  
14:3,21,  
24 15:8  
4:5  
6:9  
17:17  
10:9,16  
4:7,19  
18:12  
800.211.DEPO (3376)  
EsquireSolutions.com  
PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
Index: forward..lack  
5:15  
11:16  
15:14  
17:10  
20:21  
18:13  
21:7,10,  
17  
20:3 21:1 introduced  
16:20  
21:8  
20:21  
9:22 11:8  
10:13  
12:15  
14:2  
6:14,21  
19:14  
20:4  
11:2  
7:6,19  
8:1,24  
9:13  
5:1 6:13  
9:2  
10:11  
8:19  
10:6,23  
11:23  
12:23  
11:1  
7:12,13  
21:8  
16:13  
14:12  
20:17  
6:12  
15:1,21,  
22 17:15  
19:7 20:1  
J
7:11  
6:23  
11:15,17  
G
10:25  
10:14  
11:4  
16:2  
6:22 7:13  
12:7,24  
13:25  
4:15  
7:17  
5:17  
6:25  
5:25 6:1  
8:5,8,13,  
14 11:20  
12:1  
7:2,9  
I
21:14  
14:17  
20:22  
4:16  
8:18,20  
6:11  
20:16  
20:8  
6:11  
10:20  
15:13,15  
5:15  
12:14  
4:5,17  
13:16  
14:15  
15:16  
20:10  
5:2 6:19,  
21 8:14  
9:1,9,12  
14:11  
15:20  
17:11,14  
19:3,6,7  
7:15 8:23  
13:12  
7:9,24,25  
9:1 12:22  
14:17  
5:3  
H
K
16:11  
20:17  
8:25  
20:13  
6:11,12  
14:8  
13:24  
16:15  
7:3  
11:24  
10:21  
6:18  
13:22  
8:2 12:2  
19:13  
4:4,6,15,  
21,25  
L
16:23  
19:9  
8:6  
5:6,7,18  
8:19 9:19  
14:21  
800.211.DEPO (3376)  
EsquireSolutions.com  
PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
Index: Lambert..Northern  
6:11  
13:17  
13:2  
14:23  
17:3,4  
4:1,6,8,  
5:3  
15:11  
17:2,8  
18:11  
16:1  
9:4 17:19  
7:25 10:9  
24,25  
9:4 10:2,  
8 11:9  
13:22  
8:1,15,21  
9:22,23  
11:7,12  
13:23  
5:14 21:5  
5:10  
16:7  
19:19,21,  
23 20:20  
10:17  
12:23  
13:1  
19:9,10  
20:2  
13:14  
14:4  
15:16  
20:17  
8:21 13:9  
15:6 16:6  
16:2,3,8,  
18 19:1,  
12,17,20  
4:1,24  
5:13  
10:17,20  
11:8  
17:12  
7:2  
10:7 16:9  
18:2  
10:13  
4:19  
16:17  
19:18  
20:5,10  
13:10  
16:15  
15:17  
8:15  
12:15  
15:20  
17:11,14  
19:4,5  
N
6:20  
12:12  
9:18,21  
6:9  
21:6  
5:12  
8:1 19:17  
5:20  
7:15,21  
8:22  
10:6  
16:2 20:2  
4:10,12  
6:19  
5:2  
12:25  
13:8  
15:22  
16:4,9  
19:14  
13:11  
15:5,19  
17:13  
12:17  
16:17  
17:21  
21:4  
6:9  
19:3  
19:9  
8:18,19, minutes  
20  
5:14 8:7  
19:15  
5:2  
7:18  
11:18,22  
8:22  
12:13  
15:2,5  
13:11  
15:16,18  
17:12  
M
4:24  
12:4  
17:22,25  
16:21  
20:3  
10:13  
17:11,14,  
23  
6:5 9:12  
14:11  
14:19  
12:7  
19:11,16  
20:10  
4:7 13:16  
21:13  
15:21  
13:8  
13:10  
800.211.DEPO (3376)  
EsquireSolutions.com  
PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
Index: note..protocols  
8:21  
17:21  
19:20  
18:17,19, president  
8:24  
22  
19:2  
5:4  
21:4  
10:19,23  
16:12  
4:18 7:9  
18:1  
21:5  
4:2,22  
5:22  
12:10 12:11  
21:12  
9:16,20  
18:16  
21:1  
20:8  
17:4,5  
6:8,11,  
18:2  
20:21  
6:8,14  
7:5  
17:11,14,  
23  
7:7 11:9  
10:15  
4:9  
5:1  
4:11,21  
5:12  
12,20 7:4  
11:19  
19:15  
6:4  
4:11  
13:13  
9:9  
7:14 8:23  
13:12  
O
5:16  
11:18  
19:2  
4:23  
12:14  
5:4  
16:21  
7:15 8:22  
13:11  
15:5,7  
9:3,11  
14:10  
7:1  
5:3,4  
11:11  
13:23  
15:8  
4:22  
11:18  
16:24  
8:15  
16:5  
4:3 5:5  
8:4,6,10,  
17 9:17  
11:14  
4:4,16  
9:5 21:11  
10:24  
5:9 9:11  
10:1  
19:8  
14:1  
13:14  
13:13  
13:4,7  
14:19,23,  
24 15:25  
21:13  
P
12:18  
16:14  
15:10,12  
17:1,3,5,  
9 18:10,  
12,18,21  
20:24  
15:2 18:5  
10:13  
4:2 5:21  
21:11,17  
13:24  
21:3  
14:17  
12:17  
20:4,5,7,  
11  
4:9,10  
9:8  
7:14  
10:5,12  
9:18,19,  
21  
11:4  
11:10  
13:10,21  
6:24  
14:24  
14:16  
14:14  
18:2  
15:20  
800.211.DEPO (3376)  
EsquireSolutions.com  
PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
Index: proud..safe  
6:14  
19:10  
5:1  
4:19  
14:3  
19:16  
4:16  
R
5:20  
9:3  
9:8 14:20  
13:16,17  
16:22  
7:20  
10:11  
16:20  
7:1 12:11  
21:6  
17:20  
11:1,3  
14:5  
20:9,25  
10:16  
20:18  
13:17,20  
12:8  
14:1  
11:25  
7:17 18:3  
19:19  
11:1 16:3  
6:4 10:1  
15:25  
15:3  
12:6  
16:11  
4:7 7:8,  
20  
4:25 6:9  
12:18,25  
14:21  
16:25  
17:18  
4:8  
21:1,5  
6:3,7,18  
9:3,7  
10:2,3,  
17,18,21  
11:2,9  
14:1  
17:19  
18:8  
21:15  
5:8 6:25  
7:2  
12:8  
15:3  
9:6  
4:4,16  
5:7 6:21  
9:5,9,12  
10:5  
11:23  
14:5  
6:10 7:16  
18:25  
16:12  
11:8  
14:22  
13:18,25  
14:11  
15:23  
21:11  
20:12  
21:2  
19:22  
4:4,5,17,  
20 5:7,9  
7:1,6,24  
9:1 11:25  
12:6,11  
14:3  
13:25  
14:22  
4:25  
15:24  
16:25  
18:8  
10:3 11:2  
6:17  
18:2  
4:18 8:12  
10:25  
21:13  
4:11  
4:15  
10:12  
11:11  
12:8  
5:18  
4:8  
21:11  
8:2 10:19  
20:22  
9:4  
5:17  
6:16  
20:21  
4:18  
9:23  
S
11:3  
9:23  
11:22  
Q
10:17  
16:17  
10:9 11:5  
11:5  
800.211.DEPO (3376)  
EsquireSolutions.com  
PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
Index: safety..system  
4:5,17  
14:6 18:7  
19:14  
20:22  
12:1  
13:15  
16:4,9  
5:13  
6:21  
12:19  
14:25  
19:6  
8:23,25  
9:2,6,8  
10:3,15,  
25 11:10,  
24 12:2,  
5,14,16,  
18,24  
13:2,15,  
18,24  
14:24  
15:6  
20:11  
10:4  
12:16  
5:10  
15:4  
9:22 11:7  
9:4 10:10  
15:21  
18:6,7  
5:22  
12:22  
10:19  
10:3  
4:23  
10:6  
9:22 11:7  
14:25  
16:2,9,23  
18:2,6  
19:12,21  
20:20  
8:4  
21:5  
21:8  
20:11  
8:25  
18:8  
14:7  
4:5,16  
8:2 10:23  
12:2  
11:1,24  
15:25  
7:15,21,  
22 8:22,  
23,25  
9:1,4,13,  
23 10:2,  
19 11:23, snowmobile  
24 12:2,  
5,8,9  
13:11,12,  
15,17,19,  
20,23  
14:8,12,  
14 15:5,  
7,17,19  
16:2,9,23  
17:11,13,  
14,23  
10:5  
14:18  
20:6  
18:4,5  
19:13,18  
10:8  
14:15  
4:10  
10:10  
18:1  
6:13 7:13  
16:12  
10:25  
12:11  
10:8  
5:19,20  
18:25  
17:22  
6:3 7:18  
9:12  
5:10,11,  
15 9:16,  
20 18:16,  
20  
9:7  
11:22  
11:11  
14:25  
14:11  
8:11,15  
12:23  
16:21  
5:14,24  
8:18 21:4  
5:3  
18:24  
15:17  
19:1,3,5,  
7,12,21  
20:1,20  
9:24  
9:24  
19:20  
5:12  
14:19  
19:18  
21:15  
11:20  
12:21  
20:9,19  
13:18  
9:9  
11:19,21  
12:9  
15:15  
19:1  
7:22 8:3  
12:5  
5:13  
19:8  
13:18  
15:3  
800.211.DEPO (3376)  
EsquireSolutions.com  
PUBLIC HEARING  
SKI AREA SAFETY GENERAL  
November 13, 2025  
Index: talk..years  
7:8 14:6, times  
10:23  
7:22  
7,21  
16:15  
12:25  
12:20  
7:22 8:3  
17:3  
7:23  
T
W
14:5  
20:18  
18:23  
17:21  
6:6 7:11  
18:20  
19:10  
10:4  
5:19  
4:21 5:8,  
21 9:16,  
20 21:11  
14:13  
6:13,17  
7:12 14:3  
16:13  
21:14  
14:4  
18:13  
7:23  
10:23  
21:12  
19:6,9  
16:4,10  
4:24  
10:9  
Y
16:16  
13:21  
15:18  
10:17  
11:8  
14:22  
21:7  
21:14  
16:15  
10:7  
4:19  
13:24  
8:14  
8:15  
11:22  
15:1,21  
17:15  
18:24  
14:7  
20:14  
11:5  
17:20  
V
9:5  
18:19  
15:16  
19:1  
19:8 20:2  
4:23 16:6  
16:14  
6:3  
5:11  
17:23,25  
18:1  
10:5  
10:2 11:9 winter  
17:19  
9:25 10:7  
11:6  
5:18  
9:25  
9:4 10:8 wintertime  
13:22  
17:24  
19:13  
4:2  
14:5,18  
15:23  
21:2  
16:6  
U
19:11  
20:5  
11:13  
13:3 15:8  
16:25  
20:2  
21:3,10  
15:23  
9:14  
12:20  
17:15  
19:24  
16:6  
14:6  
14:4  
800.211.DEPO (3376)  
EsquireSolutions.com  
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