PUBLIC HEARING

Bureau of Elections

September 05, 2025

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·1· · · · · · STATE OF MICHIGAN

·2· · · · · ·DEPARTMENT OF STATE

·3· ·JOCELYN BENSON, Secretary of State

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·8· · · · · ·BUREAU OF ELECTIONS

·9· · · · · · ·PUBLIC HEARING

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13· · · · Binsfeld Office Building

14· · · · · 201 Townsend Street

15· · · · · · Lansing, Michigan

16· · · ·Friday, September 5, 2025

17· · · · · · · ·9:29 a.m.

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23· · · Marcy A. Klingshirn, CER 6924

· · · · Certified Electronic Recorder

24· · · Esquire Deposition Solutions

· · · · ·Firm Registration No. 8035

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·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · APPEARANCES

·2· ·For the State:· ·ALESSA BOES

· · · · · · · · · · · JENNY MCINERNEY

·3· · · · · · · · · · JESSICA SMITH

· · · · · · · · · · · ALLISON FINDLAY

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·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·TABLE OF CONTENTS

· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE

·2· ·_____________________________________________________________

·3· ·1.· · · Statement by Ms. Boes· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·1

·4· ·2.· · · Public Comment

·5· · · · · ·1.· ·Patrick Colbeck· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 5

·6· · · · · ·2.· ·Dee Davey· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 8

·7· · · · · ·3.· ·Darlene Hennessy· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·9

·8· · · · · ·4.· ·Patrice Johnson· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 11

·9· · · · · ·5.· ·Phani Mantravadi· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·14

10· · · · · ·6.· ·Jeff Schaeper· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 16

11· · · · · ·7.· ·Tim Mauro-Vetter· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·19

12· · · · · ·8.· ·Sheree Ritchie· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·22

13· · · · · ·9.· ·Lola Killey· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 23

14· · · · · ·10.· Bryanna Vitale· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·25

15· · · · · ·11.· Shelly Lake· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 27

16· · · · · ·12.· Steve Frahm· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 29

17· · · · · ·13.· Marla Weber· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 31

18· · · · · ·14.· Timothy Smith· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 32

19· · · · · ·15.· James Johnson· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 34

20· · · · · ·16.· Frederick Nienstedt· · · · · · · · · · · · 36

21· · · · · ·17.· Dr. Michael Ross· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·37

22· · · · · ·18.· Monica Yatooma· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·40

23· · · · · ·19.· Thomas Nemcek· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 42

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·1· · · · · · Via Videoconference

·2· · · · · · Friday, September 5, 2025 - 9:29 a.m.

·3· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Good morning.· We'll get started.

·4· ·This hearing is being called to order at 9:30 a.m. on

·5· ·September 5th, 2025, at the Binsfeld Office Building in

·6· ·Lansing, Michigan.

·7· · · · · · My name is Alessa Boes, and I will be

·8· ·facilitating the hearing today.· I'm here with my

·9· ·colleagues Jenny McInerney, Jessica Smith, and Allison

10· ·Findlay.

11· · · · · · This is a public hearing on proposed

12· ·administrative rules entitled "Voter Registration

13· ·Cancellation Challenge and Correction."

14· · · · · · This hearing is being conducted pursuant to

15· ·section 31 of the Michigan election law, 1954 PA 116,

16· ·MCL 168.31.· The purpose of the hearing today is to

17· ·listen to public comment on the proposed administrative

18· ·rules.· Note that the public comment period will remain

19· ·open, and the department will accept written public

20· ·comments until 5:00 p.m. today.

21· · · · · · Please note that we are here today to receive

22· ·your comments on the proposed rules.· If you wish to

23· ·speak, please make sure you have signed in and indicated

24· ·your willingness to speak.· We will call on speakers in

25· ·the order in which names are listed on the sign-in

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·1· ·sheets.· When you come forward to speak, please identify

·2· ·yourself with your name, please spell your name, please

·3· ·identify the organization you represent and your mailing

·4· ·or e-mail address so that this information may be

·5· ·transcribed into the hearing report.· If you have

·6· ·additional comments to submit in writing, you may -- you

·7· ·may leave them at the registration desk or submit them

·8· ·to the Board no later than 5:00 p.m. today.

·9· · · · · · Public comment will be limited to three minutes

10· ·per person.· Because the purpose of this hearing is to

11· ·listen to public input related to the proposed rules, we

12· ·will not answer questions.

13· · · · · · And with that, I will call the first speaker on

14· ·my list, which is Patrick Colbeck.· Just remember to

15· ·state and spell your name, please.

16· · · · · · · · · · ·PATRICK COLBECK

17· · · · · · MR. PATRICK COLBECK:· All right.· My name is

18· ·Patrick Colbeck, C-o-l-b-e-c-k.· I'm representing

19· ·myself.· I'm a former state senator for the citizens of

20· ·the 7th state Senate district whom I served for two

21· ·terms before being term limited.· During my second term

22· ·in the Michigan senate, I served as vice chair of the

23· ·Senate election and government reform committee.

24· · · · · · On July 15th of this year, I testified before

25· ·the Michigan House Election Integrity Committee on the

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·1· ·status of the Michigan Secretary of State's efforts to

·2· ·ensure that our elections are conducted with integrity

·3· ·and accuracy as required under Article 2, section four

·4· ·of the Michigan constitution.

·5· · · · · · In short, I provided significant evidence that

·6· ·this constitutional standard has not yet been satisfied

·7· ·by any objective measure.· Key evidence highlighted

·8· ·during my testimony includes the fact that a

·9· ·170-year-old civil war veteran, Jason Lemoyne Daniel,

10· ·was deemed eligible to vote and actually voted in the

11· ·2020 election.· There are currently over 350,000 fewer

12· ·voters than ballots cast in the 2020 election seem to

13· ·indicate a -- an attempt to remove illegal voters from

14· ·voter history data.· And in the 2024 election, 125,428

15· ·illegal votes were cast by voters who cast more than one

16· ·ballot.

17· · · · · · The new rules before us today by the Secretary

18· ·of State not only fall -- or fail to address the current

19· ·lack of accuracy and integrity in the conduct of our

20· ·elections, they actually include measures that would

21· ·exacerbate an already disgraceful state of affairs.· In

22· ·fact, under rule five, clerks would be required to

23· ·classify a 170-year-old Jason Lemoyne Daniel with an

24· ·active status.

25· · · · · · Among the provisions of the proposed rules is a

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·1· ·maliciously defamatory assertion that the data from

·2· ·organizations such as CheckMyVote.org is not reliable.

·3· ·Please note that the data used by CheckMyVote.org to

·4· ·assist in the challenging of voter records comes

·5· ·directly from the Michigan Secretary of State via FOIA

·6· ·request.· It is noteworthy that the Michigan Secretary

·7· ·of State is not listed in the section on reliable

·8· ·sources of information for its own rule set.

·9· · · · · · The net impact of the proposed rule set is to

10· ·slow down or otherwise impair the removal of ineligible

11· ·voters by limiting clerk discretion and employing more

12· ·onerous voter challenge standards.· Such provisions

13· ·encourage electoral fraud.· Upon examination of the

14· ·proposed new rule set, it is difficult not to conclude

15· ·that Michigan Secretary of State, Jocelyn Benson is

16· ·deliberately seeking to weaken the already lax election

17· ·integrity measures promoted under her watch.· Simply

18· ·put, the new rules would prevent timely disclosure and

19· ·removal of illegal voters in the state Qualified Voter

20· ·File.· The only beneficiaries of such a proposed rule

21· ·would be those intent upon engaging in election fraud.

22· · · · · · I urge the Secretary of State to retract their

23· ·proposal and pursue rules that truly enhance the

24· ·accuracy and integrity of our elections.· That's it.

25· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· The next person on the

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·1· ·list is Dee Davey.

·2· · · · · · MS. DEE DAVEY:· Good morning.· Is the mic on?

·3· · · · · · MS. BOES:· I'm not sure.· There might be a

·4· ·little switch.· Yeah.· There you go.

·5· · · · · · · · · · · ·DEE DAVEY

·6· · · · · · MS. DEE DAVEY:· Thank you.· Dee Davey,

·7· ·D-a-v-e-y, deedavey@protonmail.com.· I'm here

·8· ·representing myself.

·9· · · · · · I am here as a citizen to object to this rule

10· ·set.· I oppose the rules set on the basis that our

11· ·legislative process is being usurped in the following

12· ·ways.· One, our legislative body has not approved

13· ·changes to MCL law; proponents of the rules set are

14· ·manipulating JCAR rules; and, three, the SOS is

15· ·attempting to change the law through an administrative

16· ·process which circumvents the legislative process and

17· ·the will of the people.

18· · · · · · I further oppose the rule set which would

19· ·eliminate reliable data sources.· One, on what basis are

20· ·sources being disqualified?· Two, what evidence does the

21· ·SOS provide that sources to be eliminated are not valid?

22· ·Three, what is the basis for determining what is

23· ·reliable versus unreliable?· I oppose the rule set which

24· ·will stifle citizen engagement by requiring separate,

25· ·notarized affidavit submitted by certified mail.· This

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·1· ·is an obstruction of citizen engagement and I believe a

·2· ·civil rights violation.

·3· · · · · · I oppose the rule set which would grant 83

·4· ·percent of Michigan, non-military UOCAVA voters access

·5· ·to voting without verification of citizenship.· The SOS

·6· ·has a mandate through HAVA to maintain accurate voter

·7· ·rules.· Non-verification of non-military registrations

·8· ·is a violation of HAVA law.

·9· · · · · · Finally, I oppose the rule set that transfers

10· ·authority from clerks to the Secretary of State.· MCL

11· ·168 explicitly gives clerks authority to maintain voter

12· ·polls.· This rule is a removal of clerk authority.

13· ·Thank you.

14· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· The next person is

15· ·Darlene Hennessy.

16· · · · · · MS. DARLENE HENNESSY:· Hi.· Can you hear me?

17· · · · · · MS. BOES:· There's a button at the base.

18· · · · · · MS. DARLENE HENNESSY:· There it is.

19· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Yeah.

20· · · · · · · · · · DARLENE HENNESSY

21· · · · · · MS. DARLENE HENNESSY:· Okay.· All right.· I'm

22· ·Darlene Hennessy, D-a-r-l-e-n-e H-e-n-n-e-s-s-y.· I'm

23· ·from Wayne County, and I'm speaking on behalf of myself.

24· · · · · · So I'm here in regards to speak about rule

25· ·168.252, reliable information, rule two, section three.

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·1· ·It considers the not reliable in -- for triggering

·2· ·sources that are not reliable for triggering and

·3· ·confirmation and cancellation, such as Ancestry.com,

·4· ·Find A Grave, and CheckMyVote.· I've been with --

·5· ·working with CheckMyVote for three years and CheckMyVote

·6· ·receives the Qualified Voter File each month from the

·7· ·Secretary of State via FOIA.· Does this mean the

·8· ·information provided by the Secretary of State is being

·9· ·labeled as invalid and unreliable?

10· · · · · · In my jurisdiction I have found over 103

11· ·registered voters that are over 100 years old.· One

12· ·example, more -- man born in 1898, registered in 2008

13· ·and vote -- did -- never voted since the -- we have

14· ·records of 2004.· He passed away in 1976.· I found that

15· ·on the social security de -- death index.· He still

16· ·remains on the voter rolls as of 9/1.· So he registered

17· ·when he was 110.

18· · · · · · So the rule states that clerks are not

19· ·obligated to investigate information submitted by

20· ·citizens.· I believe this is a deliberate attempt to

21· ·silence those of us who have witnessed voted -- voter

22· ·rolls and lack -- and a lack of meaningful voter list

23· ·man -- maintenance.· The EAC, the electron -- the

24· ·election commission best practice engaged states,

25· ·"engage the public, voters, media, community

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·1· ·organizations to assist in the process to -- year

·2· ·run to maintain adequate voter maintenance."

·3· · · · · · The rules state that we are -- oh, I'm sorry --

·4· ·we are not trying to create problems.· We are trying to

·5· ·help when we submit affidavits and documented evidence,

·6· ·we expect clerks to at least follow up.· Clerks have

·7· ·many more resources than we do to verify and take

·8· ·action.· By dismissing citizen supplied information, the

·9· ·rule undermines transparency, accountability, and the

10· ·integrity of voting rolls.· Thank you for your time.

11· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· The next person is

12· ·Patrice Johnson.

13· · · · · · MS. PATRICE JOHNSON:· I think it's on.· The

14· ·light's on.

15· · · · · · MS. BOES:· It's on, yeah.

16· · · · · · · · · · ·PATRICE JOHNSON

17· · · · · · MS. PATRICE JOHNSON:· Okay.· Thank you.· Good

18· ·morning.· My name is Patrice Johnson, P-a-t-r-i-c-e

19· ·J-o-h-n-s-o-n.· E-mail Patrice@myfairelections.org.· I'm

20· ·chair and founder of Pure Integrity Michigan Elections

21· ·statewide organization, now about 3500 supporters.

22· · · · · · After comprehensive legal analysis, we find

23· ·rule set 2025-13ST violates multiple federal laws,

24· ·exceeds state authority, and formalizes existing illegal

25· ·practices.· Rule six violates the first amendment by

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·1· ·creating economic barriers to citizen oversight,

·2· ·requiring separate, notarized affidavits and certified

·3· ·mail, over $1500 for challenging 100 voters.· This is --

·4· ·this will silence ordinary citizens' constitutional

·5· ·right to petition government about election integrity.

·6· · · · · · MCL 168.15512 requires only a written and sworn

·7· ·complaint, but six -- rule six makes law out of whole

·8· ·cloth.· It unlawfully adds personal knowledge

·9· ·requirements.· These are not in statute.· It's called

10· ·ultra virus beyond powers rulemaking, which is

11· ·forbidden.· This rule also violates the Separation of

12· ·Powers Act under Article 3, section two of the Michigan

13· ·constitution.

14· · · · · · As the Michigan Supreme Court held in Clonlara

15· ·versus State Board of Education, administrative agencies

16· ·cannot create substantive legal requirements.· Rule

17· ·three violates equal protection by creating a two-tiered

18· ·verification system.· While domestic voters face

19· ·stringent requirements, overseas civilians receive

20· ·blanket exemptions.· According to the election

21· ·assistance commission data, 81 percent of Michigan's

22· ·2024 overseas ballots came from non-military civilians,

23· ·yet they receive protective status equivalent to

24· ·deployed military personnel, which -- which Dana Nessel

25· ·has ruled against, by the way.

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·1· · · · · · This builds on existing UOCAVA system failures

·2· ·that rule three would formalize.· The Secretary of

·3· ·State's current UOCAVA manual already instructs clerks

·4· ·to grant protected status to overseas civilians waiving

·5· ·identity, citizenship, and residency

·6· ·verification.· Attorney General Nessel issue

·7· ·opinion 7322, opposing expansion of electronic

·8· ·voting to non-military voters, yet Secretary of State

·9· ·continues preferential treatment.· Rule two violates the

10· ·National Voter Registration Act by making clerk

11· ·investigations optional.· Contradictory --

12· · · · · · MS. BOES:· I'm sorry, but your time is up.· If

13· ·you have just a brief conclusion, go for it.

14· · · · · · MS. PATRICE JOHNSON:· Michigan voter rolls

15· ·contain 800,000 potentially ineligible registrations.

16· ·And the consequences of these violations expose Michigan

17· ·to federal lawsuits under the NVRA enforcement

18· ·provisions and under the civil rights provisions.· We --

19· ·we risk losing federal HAVA funding and adopting -- by

20· ·adopting rules that contradict compliance requirements.

21· ·Thank you.

22· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· Next I have Phani M.

23· ·Say and spell your full name when you get up here if you

24· ·would.

25· · · · · · MR. PHANI MANTRAVADI:· Good morning.· Mic on

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·1· ·now?

·2· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Yeah.

·3· · · · · · · · · · PHANI MANTRAVADI

·4· · · · · · MR. PHANI MANTRAVADI:· Oh.· It is on.· Okay.

·5· ·Good morning.· My name is Phani Mantravadi spelled as

·6· ·P-h-a-n-i M-a-n-t-r-a-v-a-d-i.· And thank you for the

·7· ·opportunity here to be presenting my thoughts and

·8· ·opinions on the group set that's being considered here

·9· ·for passage.

10· · · · · · My name is Phani Mantravadi.· I am here to

11· ·represent CheckMyVote.org and our volunteer network. I

12· ·have read the proposed rule set pertaining to order rule

13· ·challenges and list maintenance.· I should specifically

14· ·focus on rule two, section three, where it cites a

15· ·series of sources of information and calls

16· ·CheckMyVote.org specifically as an unreliable source of

17· ·information.

18· · · · · · Thank you for agreeing with us.· We've been

19· ·saying that for a very long time that the Michigan voter

20· ·rule data are unreliable.· Over the past few years,

21· ·we've uncovered anomalies such as Jason Lemoyne Daniel,

22· ·who is a 175-year-old at this point, voted in 2020, at

23· ·170 years old.· That's just one example among many,

24· ·many, many.· And many a time our Secretary of State

25· ·Jocelyn Benson has dismissed them as glitches or

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·1· ·locational problems due to mis-administration on the

·2· ·part -- part of local clerks while claiming that local

·3· ·clerks do not have the resources or do not have the

·4· ·tools necessary to restore accuracy to voter rolls.

·5· · · · · · So as part of that, the populus of Michigan law

·6· ·citizens started to assist in this process to find out

·7· ·the real problems and take them to the clerk.· Our

·8· ·operations do not involve taking thousands of them and

·9· ·slamming them to the clerk and see what sticks.· We do

10· ·our due diligence to find out what are real problems,

11· ·thereby saving tax dollars because mailing confirmation

12· ·notices cost money, tax dollar money.· But if you can

13· ·distill it down to the most probable problems and only

14· ·send notices to those.· And in fact, EAC best practice

15· ·manual recommends engaging with community organizations

16· ·such as CheckMyVote.org or Michigan Fair Election.

17· ·There are many in Michigan that are doing this work.

18· · · · · · And of course the clerks have to

19· ·automatically -- shouldn't automatically trigger a

20· ·notice based on information received as a challenge.

21· ·They -- they do have an obligation to do final

22· ·verifications and ensure that the notices are sent to

23· ·only, you know, cases that bear -- bear some weight.

24· ·But we're not saying that every challenge has to be sent

25· ·out to -- notice has to be sent to every challenge made.

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·1· ·Ninety percent of the work is being done, but the rest

·2· ·of it is on the clerk's side.· And over time, the --

·3· ·since the EAC recommends usage of these resources from

·4· ·public, and if the SOS is not wanting to use it, it

·5· ·suggests malfeasance.· Not mis-administration anymore,

·6· ·but entering the tip of malfeasance.

·7· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Your -- your three minutes is up,

·8· ·if you want to just briefly conclude?

·9· · · · · · MR. PHANI MANTRAVADI:· Thank you.· My

10· ·conclusion is that it doesn't look like

11· ·mis-administration anymore.· The very fact that best

12· ·practice guidelines are being not followed, and you'll

13· ·bring a 180, not you, but the SOS doing a 180 on that,

14· ·such as malfeasance.· And it is not a good look for the

15· ·Bureau of Elections.· And citizens are willing to help

16· ·in this and why is it not being accepted?

17· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· Next I have Jeff

18· ·Schaeper.

19· · · · · · · · · · · JEFF SCHAEPER

20· · · · · · MR. JEFF SCHAEPER:· That's me.· Hello.· I'm

21· ·Jeff Schaeper, J-e-f-f S-c-h-a-e-p as in Peter e-r.

22· ·E-mail IRschaeper@gmail.com.· I represent Pure Integrity

23· ·of Michigan Elections, and we oppose adoption of rules

24· ·268.251 through 268.262.

25· · · · · · In a sense, it's deja vu all over again from

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·1· ·2020, when the Secretary of State created illegal rules

·2· ·and guidances that the court's overturned seven times.

·3· ·The SOS has created these rules under current

·4· ·consideration the same way.· This office has a history

·5· ·of bending Michigan law and US law into illegal

·6· ·interpretations.· Note, these are new rules and not

·7· ·modifications to existing rules.

·8· · · · · · I will speak of two cases.· MCL 168.509d(d)1

·9· ·gives authority to the clerk to maintain their voter

10· ·rolls and to remove voters, meaning registrations, if

11· ·invalid.· This is what it says.

12· · · · · · "A clerk may conduct a program to register

13· · · ·qualified electors or to remove names of

14· · · ·registered voters who are no longer qualified

15· · · ·to vote in the city or township from the

16· · · ·registration records of that city or township.

17· · · ·A clerk who conducts a program to register

18· · · ·voters or to remove names under this section

19· · · ·shall administer the program in a uniform

20· · · ·manner to the entire city or township."

21· · · · · · Nothing says that they must give canceled

22· ·registrations to the state for removal after a statutory

23· ·waiting period.· This rule appears in R168.2543 and

24· ·168.2553, which reads,

25· · · · · · "If there's no response to the

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·1· · · ·cancellation notice or the notices returned by

·2· · · ·the post office as undeliverable, the clerk

·3· · · ·shall take no registration cancellation

·4· · · ·action.· If after the expiration of the

·5· · · ·waiting period, the individual has not engaged

·6· · · ·in any election activity, the individual's

·7· · · ·registration shall be canceled by the

·8· · · ·Secretary of State in the voter registration

·9· · · ·database.· The clerk shall update the voter's

10· · · ·master card as required by the act."

11· · · · · · This process has helped create the situation

12· ·where the QVF registrations are greater than the voting

13· ·age population.· Keeping invalidated, invalid

14· ·registrations leads to greater cost and inefficiencies.

15· ·Announce purges of records such as March 4th, 2025,

16· ·removal of 318,000 records doesn't provide assurance

17· ·that the removal was actually done or done correctly.

18· ·When MFEI requested the 318,000 records through via

19· ·FOIA, the record was -- that was provided did not match

20· ·that announced number.· More evidence of the ineptitude

21· ·of this administration to manage data.· Other

22· ·examples --

23· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Excuse me.

24· · · · · · MR. JEFF SCHAEPER:· Okay.

25· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Your time is up.· If you would like

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·1· ·to briefly conclude.

·2· · · · · · MR. JEFF SCHAEPER:· Yes, I will.· Oh, yeah.

·3· ·You're right.· Okay.

·4· · · · · · These rules have more issues than lawful

·5· ·guidance, which I have detailed.· Let this committee not

·6· ·allow a repeat of 2020 guidance errors by this

·7· ·administration.· Since these rules are new and not

·8· ·modification to existing rules, reject their adoption.

·9· ·Thank you for your consideration.

10· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· Next I have Tim Vetter.

11· · · · · · · · ·TIM MAURO MAURO-VETTER

12· · · · · · MR. TIM MAURO-VETTER:· Thank you for your time.

13· ·My name is Tim Mauro-Vetter.· Last name spelled

14· ·M-a-u-r-o hyphen V-e-t-t-e-r.· I'm a member of the

15· ·Michigan Fair Election Institute deep team, data

16· ·evaluation of election processes.· I'm a proud member of

17· ·the D9 Republican election or executive committee and

18· ·election integrity committee.· And I'm the lesser known

19· ·founder of CheckMyVote, Phani Mantravadi being the

20· ·cofounder, myself being, at the time, cofounder.

21· · · · · · There's a lot that I can't fit within three

22· ·minutes, but let me just give you a sampling.· Number

23· ·one, we can't audit any elections.· Can't audit them

24· ·using the data from the Secretary of State, nor are any

25· ·of the data from any of the local or county clerks.

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·1· ·The -- the design of the QVF is designed so that no

·2· ·clerk in Michigan can actually produce an accurate list

·3· ·of voters.· That is utterly shocking.· You can't audit

·4· ·what is constantly changing.· The vote history

·5· ·records -- and everyone universally agrees with this --

·6· ·vote history should never change.

·7· · · · · · What is changing?· Every month when we get the

·8· ·State of Michigan vote history records, state law says

·9· ·you cannot add, remove, or alter vote history records.

10· ·So we've been -- we have been documenting month by month

11· ·exactly that.· Vote history records are added, removed,

12· ·and altered many ways.· Let me just say that starting in

13· ·March of 2024, we were documenting vote history records,

14· ·flipping from in person to absentee.· What was the

15· ·solution?· Starting in March, they got rid of the vote

16· ·history methods.· Utterly shocking.· Every voter in

17· ·Michigan no longer can see, according to the data, how

18· ·they voted.

19· · · · · · When we try to get the local data, they don't

20· ·include the state required and federal required voter

21· ·ID.· They identify it as a voter ID.· It's not the same

22· ·number.· You must have, per federal law, one voter ID

23· ·number.

24· · · · · · The next thing I want to get into is we can't

25· ·get poll book information.· We can't get change history

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·1· ·records.· None of this data agrees with each other.· So

·2· ·why not just keep it from us who want to be able to

·3· ·evaluate it?

·4· · · · · · The last thing I want to say is I've been

·5· ·reporting this information to the FBI, the DOJ, the

·6· ·State of Michigan, Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson. I

·7· ·should be on her radar.· I've also been reporting this

·8· ·to Dana Nessel.· We've been producing many reports on a

·9· ·national level and national publications on how much

10· ·data manipulation is going on.

11· · · · · · Let me sum it up by saying, here's the most

12· ·recent one from Dana Nessel press release saying that

13· ·the Saint Clore -- Saint Clair --

14· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Sir, just -- just to interrupt real

15· ·quick.· Your time is up.· If you could briefly conclude?

16· · · · · · MR. TIM MAURO-VETTER:· Okay.· Briefly conclude

17· ·that she's going after people where the data does not

18· ·show that they voted twice.· She's claiming that they

19· ·voted two times.· Well, bottom line, his vote history

20· ·record doesn't show that.· We have 6,126 examples of

21· ·double voting in the data that Dana Nessel is not

22· ·investigating.· That has to be investigated, and we need

23· ·that done immediately.· Give me a call.· I would be

24· ·happy to help check that out.· Thank you.

25· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you very much.· Next I have

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·1· ·Sheree Ritchie.

·2· · · · · · · · · · ·SHEREE RITCHIE

·3· · · · · · MS. SHEREE RITCHIE:· Good morning.· My name is

·4· ·Sheree Ritchie, spelled S-h-e-r-e-e R-i-t-c-h-i-e.· I'm

·5· ·from Lansing.· And my e-mail address is

·6· ·sheree.ritchie@hotmail.com.

·7· · · · · · Thank you for hearing testimony today on this

·8· ·important matter.· I'm here to speak this morning

·9· ·about -- about rule seven, which involves independent

10· ·verification.· Rule seven violates the National Voter

11· ·Registration Act by making clerk investigations

12· ·discretionary rather than mandatory.· Under 52 USC

13· ·20507(a)(4), which states that clerks must make a

14· ·reasonable effort to remove ineligible voters.· Making

15· ·investigations optional directly contradicts this

16· ·federal mandate.

17· · · · · · The rule also violates Michigan law under MCL

18· ·168.512 by altering the statutory 30-day challenge

19· ·timeline without legislative authorization.· When clerks

20· ·find reliable information during an investigation, rule

21· ·seven will force them into a longer notice process

22· ·instead of the efficient 30-day timeline established by

23· ·law.· This creates procedural barriers that weren't

24· ·contemplated in the original statute and delays the

25· ·removal of potentially ineligible voters.

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·1· · · · · · From an accountability standpoint, making

·2· ·investigations discretionary reduces the systematic

·3· ·approach needed for maintaining accurate voter rolls and

·4· ·may compromise audit standards.· Rule seven allows

·5· ·clerks to ignore evidence of registration problems,

·6· ·which contradicts both the spirit and letter of federal

·7· ·voter registration law.

·8· · · · · · I urge you to reject rule seven and the entire

·9· ·rule set and work with the legislature to address any

10· ·genuine election administration concerns through proper

11· ·legal channels.· Thank you for your time and

12· ·consideration.

13· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you very much.· Lola Killey.

14· ·I apologize if I pronounced your last name wrong, Lola.

15· · · · · · · · · · · LOLA KILLEY

16· · · · · · MS. LOLA KILLEY:· No.· You -- you did it right,

17· ·like the first time ever for somebody.· Okay.

18· · · · · · My name is Lola Killey, L-o-l-a K-i-l-l-e-y.

19· ·E-mail Lola.Killey@gmail.com.· Ann Arbor.

20· · · · · · I'm here to oppose the Michigan SOS rule set

21· ·2025-13ST.· Federal law violations.· Michigan accepts

22· ·UOCAVA ballots up to six days after election day under

23· ·Public Act of 2023, violating federal election day

24· ·requirements under 2 USC 7 and 3 USC 1.· The 5th Circuit

25· ·and Republican National Committee versus Wetzel,

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·1· ·established that ballots must be received by election

·2· ·day.

·3· · · · · · State law violations.· Rule six commits ultra

·4· ·virus rulemaking.· MCL 168.512 requires only a written

·5· ·and sworn complaint.· Rule six illegally adds personal

·6· ·knowledge requirements not in statute, violating the

·7· ·separation of powers.· As the Michigan Supreme Court

·8· ·held in Clonlara versus State Board of Education,

·9· ·administrative agencies cannot create substantive

10· ·legal requirements.

11· · · · · · The crisis.· Michigan voter rolls contain

12· ·800,000 potentially ineligible registrations and

13· ·558,627 long inactive registrants.· These rules make

14· ·systematic cleanup nearly impossible while protecting

15· ·overseas civilians who dominate UOCAVA voting without

16· ·proper verification.

17· · · · · · Consequences.· These violations expose Michigan

18· ·to federal lawsuits under NVRA enforcement provision --

19· ·provisions, section 1983, civil rights claims, and

20· ·Department of Justice intervention.· We risk losing

21· ·federal HAVA funding by adopting rules that

22· ·contradicts -- contradict compliance

23· ·requirements.

24· · · · · · Conclusion.· Rule set 2025-13ST represents an

25· ·unprecedented executive branch power grab that silences

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·1· ·citizen oversight, violates federal law, and formalizes

·2· ·existing yet unlawful UOCAVA practices.· Michigan's

·3· ·constitutional republic depends on citizen engagement,

·4· ·not bureaucratic barriers.

·5· · · · · · I urge you to reject of this -- to reject

·6· ·the entire rule set to preserve constitutional rights,

·7· ·federal compliance, and election integrity.· We face

·8· ·potential federal lawsuits under 42 USC, section 1983

·9· ·and loss of HAVA funding if these rules proceed.

10· · · · · · Finally, the Secretary of State is supposed to

11· ·administer the law and not make law.· Thank you.

12· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you very much.· Next I have

13· ·Bryanna Vitale.

14· · · · · · · · · · ·BRYANNA VITALE

15· · · · · · MS. BRYANNA VITALE:· Good -- good morning.· My

16· ·name is Bryanna Vitale spelled B-r-y-a-n-n-a

17· ·V-i-t-a-l-e.· I am the legislative director for Speaker

18· ·Pro Tem Rachelle Smit, who is chair of the election

19· ·integrity -- integrity committee.· I am here to testify

20· ·on her behalf.

21· · · · · · I would like to express the speaker pro tem's

22· ·strong opposition to these proposed rule changes, which

23· ·completely circumvent the legislature, allowing MDOS to

24· ·fundamentally alter the way clerks perform voter

25· ·registration challenges.· Clerks should be able to use

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·1· ·every reasonable tool to keep the voter roll up to date,

·2· ·but these new rules will create significant barriers to

·3· ·legitimate citizen oversight of voter rolls and

·4· ·petitions.· They explicitly ban reliable databases like

·5· ·Ancestry.com, Find A Grave, and CheckMyVote.org.

·6· · · · · · Even though CheckMyVote obtains its data

·7· ·directly from the Department of State's qualified voter

·8· ·file via FOIA request, they require a separate

·9· ·notarized affidavit for each challenged voter, which

10· ·would be expensive and time consuming.· They grant

11· ·overseas civilians, who consist of 81 percent of

12· ·overseas voters, the same protections as military

13· ·personnel by waiving standard verification of identity,

14· ·citizenship, and residency for this expanded group.

15· ·They restrict clerk authority by forcing lengthy

16· ·processes instead of efficient 30-day corrections and by

17· ·centralizing cancellation authority with the Secretary

18· ·of State.· They silence legitimate oversight through

19· ·broadly written anti-harassment provisions that could

20· ·label any systematic election integrity effort as

21· ·harassment.

22· · · · · · Clearly, these rules are designed to make it

23· ·both easier for a illegitimate voters to remain on the

24· ·voter roll and harder for clerks to perform necessary

25· ·oversight.· It is essential that Michigan's elections be

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·1· ·governed by laws passed by the legislature and not by

·2· ·expanding rules promulgated by state department.

·3· · · · · · Thank you for hearing Representative Smit's

·4· ·testimony.

·5· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· Next I have Shelly Lake.

·6· · · · · · MS. SHELLY LAKE:· Good morning.

·7· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Good morning.

·8· · · · · · · · · · · SHELLY LAKE

·9· · · · · · MS. SHELLY LAKE:· My name is Shelly Lake,

10· ·S-h-e-l-l-y L-a-k-e.· And e-mail is

11· ·ShellyLake13@gmail.com.· I would like to thank you for

12· ·allowing us all to speak this morning.

13· · · · · · I am a deputy clerk in Barry County and have

14· ·worked as the clerk for quite awhile with absent clerks,

15· ·but also as a private citizen who cares about our voter

16· ·rolls.

17· · · · · · I oppose this rule set 2025-13.· What the

18· ·Secretary of State is doing here is creating new laws,

19· ·not roles to support already existing laws.· As a deputy

20· ·clerk, the role of our office is to maintain our own

21· ·Qualified Voter File, upholding its integrity.· The

22· ·rules before you violate the Help America Vote Act, the

23· ·National Voter Registration Act, Michigan compiled laws

24· ·and federal laws.· They take away authority from clerks

25· ·and centralize all cancellation authority with the

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·1· ·Secretary of State.· These rules create barriers for

·2· ·clerks, and they increase our township cost to maintain

·3· ·our own QVF.· These rules represent a power grab by the

·4· ·Secretary of State's office, and it removes our

·5· ·authority as locally elected officials who are directly

·6· ·accountable to our communities.

·7· · · · · · Considering our Secretary of State is currently

·8· ·running for governor of Michigan, it is imperative that

·9· ·she and her office not be allowed to have such complete

10· ·control over removing dead people, voters from

11· ·nonexistent addresses, and voters who do not live in our

12· ·jurisdiction, let alone the state of Michigan.· Clerks

13· ·are already overworked and do not have the time to do

14· ·all of the house canvassing necessary to maintain our

15· ·voter rolls.· Personally, I have received lists from

16· ·CheckMyVote.org, and I am extremely thankful when I get

17· ·them that they're spot on.· I follow up correctly, my

18· ·clerk and I, and remove those that need removing.· That

19· ·help is -- is invaluable.

20· · · · · · I urge you to reject these rules to preserve

21· ·local election authority and comply with federal law and

22· ·to protect the integrity of Michigan's legislative

23· ·process.· Overall, these rules change -- these rule

24· ·changes violate federal law.· They exceed state

25· ·authority, and they undermine election integrity. I

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·1· ·urge you to reject -- reject this entire rule set and

·2· ·work with the legislature to address any genuine

·3· ·election administrative concerns through proper legal

·4· ·channels.· Thanks again for your time.

·5· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· Steve Frahm?

·6· · · · · · · · · · · STEVE FRAHM

·7· · · · · · MR. STEVE FRAHM:· Good morning.· My name is

·8· ·Steve Frahm.· I'm here as a citizen.· My name is spelled

·9· ·S-t-e-v-e F-r-a-h-m.· My e-mail is [email protected].

10· · · · · · I'm here to express my serious concern about

11· ·the recent proposed Department of State rule changes

12· ·regarding the voter registration challenges and

13· ·corrections.· These rules changes fundamentally

14· ·undermine the election integrity efforts of Michigan

15· ·citizens and civilian oversight of our ever changing

16· ·Michigan state Qualified Voter File with --

17· ·there's -- there's no way to track anything.· The voters

18· ·are added by third parties.· The clerks are being

19· ·restricted by these rule changes.· Do not do their

20· ·constitutional duty.· It's -- it's an overreach of power

21· ·by the Secretary of State.

22· · · · · · These proposed rules eliminate proven research

23· ·tools by labeling public databases like CheckMyVote.org

24· ·and Ancestry.com as unreliable.· The -- the data

25· ·CheckMyVote is diligently compiled by citizens who

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·1· ·submit FOIA requests and then the CheckMyVote records

·2· ·are directly derived from the Secretary of State's own

·3· ·records.· And there's no accountability.· And any

·4· ·accountability is -- is being compromised by these

·5· ·changes.

·6· · · · · · These rule changes create privative challenge

·7· ·requirements, require separate noted -- notarized

·8· ·affidavits for each and every voter challenge and

·9· ·expensive certified mail processes that effectively end

10· ·any capability of citizens to hold their government

11· ·accountable.· These rule changes grant preferential

12· ·treatment to non-military, overseas civilians, over 80

13· ·percent of Michigan overseas UOCAVA voters.· And -- and

14· ·it waives the standard checks on -- on if these people

15· ·even exist, are citizens and are residents.

16· · · · · · These rule changes restrict constitutional

17· ·clerk authority by forcing lengthy two-year processes

18· ·instead of efficient 30-day corrections and centralize

19· ·all cancellation authority with the Secretary of State

20· ·when the -- the clerks, our faithful clerks who are

21· ·responsible for oversight, are being usurped from

22· ·performing their constitutional duties.· These rule

23· ·changes silence legitimate oversight through your

24· ·broadly -- over -- overly broadly written antiharassment

25· ·provisions.· Polite concerned citizens --

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·1· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Excuse me.· Sir, your time is up.

·2· ·If you could bring conclude.

·3· · · · · · MR. STEVE FRAHM:· Yes.· Thank you so much.

·4· ·They silence any -- any possibility of citizens holding

·5· ·their government accountable, and -- and I think it's a

·6· ·shameful power grab.· Thank you for your time.

·7· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· Next I have Marla Weber.

·8· · · · · · MS. MARLA WEBER:· Good morning.

·9· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Good morning.

10· · · · · · · · · · · ·MARLA WEBER

11· · · · · · MS. MARLA WEBER:· My name is Marla Weber. I

12· ·live in Allegan County, Michigan.· And my e-mail address

13· ·is MarlaWeber@protonmail.com.· Webers is spelled with

14· ·one b.· I'm here today representing myself to object to

15· ·the proposed rules.

16· · · · · · The assertion that no individuals or groups are

17· ·harmed by the adoption of these rules is highly

18· ·inaccurate.· These rules take away all citizen rights

19· ·who are currently allowed to challenge invalid electors

20· ·currently active on the QVF within their own local

21· ·jurisdiction throughout Michigan.· This is per MCL

22· ·168.512.· In doing this, all citizens of Michigan are

23· ·affected by voter rolls that will be even more bloated

24· ·than they are already.

25· · · · · · The US Election Commission Administration

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·1· ·recommends citizen involvement in maintaining clean

·2· ·voter rolls.· Why does the State of Michigan want to

·3· ·take these rights away?· This also harms organizations

·4· ·such as Michigan Fair Elections, who have volunteers

·5· ·around our state working in their local jurisdictions to

·6· ·help their local clerks maintain the QVF by researching

·7· ·potential unqualified electors using the very tools

·8· ·and more that these rules list as unreliable.

·9· · · · · · Many clerks appreciate the help from local

10· ·volunteers as doing accurate research takes a lot of

11· ·time for each potential instance.· Also, these rules

12· ·claim that the U.S. Postal Service national change of

13· ·address database is reliable and able to be used by

14· ·clerks.· However, the Secretary of State has not

15· ·provided this database in many, many years, and it is

16· ·very expensive to buy.· And certainly, every local

17· ·clerk in our state cannot be expected to foot

18· ·this bill.

19· · · · · · As a citizen of the great state of Michigan, I

20· ·adamantly oppose these proposed election rules.· Thank

21· ·you.

22· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· Next I have Timothy

23· ·Smith.

24· · · · · · · · · · · TIMOTHY SMITH

25· · · · · · MR. TIMOTHY SMITH:· My name is Timothy Smith,

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·1· ·S-m-i-t-h, Smith4secretary.com.· I am the Republican

·2· ·candidate for Secretary of State.

·3· · · · · · First, let me just clarify and say that the key

·4· ·to election integrity is data integrity and currently,

·5· ·we don't have that.· We have zero data integrity.

·6· ·Secretary Benson's proposed administrative rules are

·7· ·more than just procedural changes.· They represent an

·8· ·effort to undermine citizen oversight and empower her to

·9· ·control elections instead of we, the people.· These

10· ·rules would ban proven research tools like

11· ·CheckMyVote.org hindering citizens and clerks from

12· ·identifying and challenging ineligible voter

13· ·registration.· It imposes ridiculous requirements for

14· ·challenging registrations, including notarized

15· ·affidavits and certified mail make it nearly impossible

16· ·for citizens to participate in safeguarding our voting

17· ·rolls.

18· · · · · · It restricts clerk's authorities and slows down

19· ·legitimate voting registration maintenance, and it

20· ·silences citizens through antiharassment provisions,

21· ·discouraging legitimate changes -- challenges to

22· ·ineligible registrations.· These rules are not about

23· ·standardization.· They're about silencing the people and

24· ·controlling the election outcome.· These threaten the --

25· ·they threaten to transform Michigan into a third world

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·1· ·country.· These rules are unacceptable and undermine the

·2· ·very foundation of our republic, and we the people will

·3· ·not be silenced.

·4· · · · · · I call on President Trump and every Republican

·5· ·to please stand with us and fight these rules.· If they

·6· ·pass, we will never have clean voting rolls and it will

·7· ·destroy Michigan.· Thank you for your time.

·8· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· Next I have James

·9· ·Johnson.

10· · · · · · · · · · · JAMES JOHNSON

11· · · · · · MR. JAMES JOHNSON:· My name is James Johnson,

12· ·J-o-h-n-s-o-n.· E-mail, JkjGranger -- I'll repeat that.

13· ·Jkjg-r-a-n-g-e-r@icloud.com.· And I'm here as a citizen.

14· · · · · · Good morning.· Thank you for this opportunity

15· ·to address the proposed election rules that put Michigan

16· ·at serious legal risk.· The proposed rule set 2025-13ST

17· ·creates multiple violations of federal election law that

18· ·can trigger costly litigation and jeopardize federal

19· ·funding.· The National Voter Registration Act 52 USC

20· ·2507, requires states conduct systematic programs making

21· ·reasonable efforts to remove ineligible voters.· This is

22· ·not optional.· It's federal law.· Rule two directly

23· ·violates this mandate by making clerk investigations

24· ·discretionary rather than required.

25· · · · · · When presented with potential registration

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·1· ·irregularities, clerks can simply choose to ignore them.

·2· ·This abandons the reasonable effort federal law demands.

·3· ·The rule also prohibits proven maintenance tools.· The

·4· ·election assistance commission specifically recommends

·5· ·using databases, U.S. Postal Service change of address

·6· ·data, and cross state verification.· Exactly what rule

·7· ·two bans as unreliable.

·8· · · · · · Health America Vote Act requires accurate,

·9· ·uniform voter databases under 52 USC 21083(a)(4), rule

10· ·two's case-by-case standards creates inconsistency

11· ·HAVA was designed to eliminate.· When Michigan receives

12· ·millions in federal HAVA funding, we've committed to

13· ·maintaining accurate voter list, not subjective ones.

14· · · · · · Rule three exceeds federal authority by

15· ·expanding UOCAVA protections beyond statutory limits.

16· ·Federal law under 52 USC 2301-2311 (sic) protects

17· ·specific military categories.· Michigan cannot

18· ·unilaterally expand federal protection to oversee

19· ·civilians without congressional authority.

20· · · · · · According to EAC, Election Assistance

21· ·Commission data 81 --

22· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Excuse me, sir.· Your time is up.

23· ·If you could briefly conclude.

24· · · · · · MR. JAMES JOHNSON:· Okay.· Conclusion, Michigan

25· ·must maintain federal compliance to reserve both

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·1· ·election integrity and federal funding.· I urge you to

·2· ·reject these rules and ensure Michigan's election

·3· ·administration aligns with the federal --

·4· ·federal requirements.· Federal law is not optional.

·5· ·Michigan must comply.

·6· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you very much.· And I'll

·7· ·remind everyone, if you do run out of speaking time and

·8· ·you have more you would like to say, you can submit a

·9· ·written comment to [email protected]

10· ·until 5:00 p.m. today.

11· · · · · · Next, I have Frederick -- very sorry about your

12· ·last name -- Nienstedt.

13· · · · · · · · · ·FREDERICK NIENSTEDT

14· · · · · · MR. FREDERICK NIENSTEDT:· Good morning.· My

15· ·name is Fed Nienstedt, F-r-e-d N-i-e-n-s-t-e-d-t. I

16· ·would like this rule to be dismissed.

17· · · · · · I will pose a passage of these adjustments to

18· ·our legislation.· On the first count, it is repugnant to

19· ·the Michigan constitution.· All power resides with the

20· ·people.· All political power resides with the people.

21· ·This is an egregious change that does not allow citizens

22· ·to adequately associate as in CheckMyVote.· Freedom of

23· ·association is a guarantee under the U.S. constitution.

24· ·A specific naming of CheckMyVote is clearly an extension

25· ·by bill of attainder.· It is not necessarily legislature

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·1· ·here because it is a rule, but it is a bill of an

·2· ·attainder and violates the U.S. constitution, Article 1,

·3· ·Section 9.· Please do not allow passage of any rule that

·4· ·is repugnant to both the Michigan constitution and U.S.

·5· ·constitution.

·6· · · · · · I would like for the Board to possibly answer

·7· ·how the citizens, we the people of Michigan, are

·8· ·expected to canvass the voter list.· That is our

·9· ·franchise.· That does not belong to the government.· It

10· ·belongs to the governed.· We allow the government to run

11· ·elections.· It is our authority that they are using to

12· ·canvass for the purposes of electing officers to

13· ·represent us.· We grant that authority, and we never

14· ·lose the right to check that authority by evaluation, by

15· ·asking, by understanding how a qualified voter list is

16· ·constructed and maintained.

17· · · · · · This cannot be allowed to proceed.· Please,

18· ·with all of your authority, deny the passage of these

19· ·proposed rules.· Thank you.

20· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· Next I have, I believe,

21· ·Dr. Michael Ross.

22· · · · · · · · · ·DR. MICHAEL ROSS

23· · · · · · DR. MICHAEL ROSS:· Thank you for this

24· ·opportunity to speak.· I'm Dr. Michael Ross.· I'm a

25· ·citizen, a physician, a precinct delegate, and active

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·1· ·member of my community.

·2· · · · · · It has become abundantly clear, particularly

·3· ·since COVID-19, you know, came into our community, that

·4· ·the integrity of the election process, which has long

·5· ·been insecure, has become egregiously compromised in

·6· ·many ways, threatening our most fundamental civil

·7· ·liberty, that of self-governance, through individual

·8· ·voting and representative government.· These rules

·9· ·promise to compromise the rights of the citizens to

10· ·self-govern.· This is tyranny.

11· · · · · · These changes and rules are being implemented

12· ·by an authoritarian and hostile process towards we the

13· ·people.· It abrogates our rights to monitor the process

14· ·which secures the integrity of the voting apparatus.

15· · · · · · Late in October, a member of my Bible study

16· ·group reported an incident at a -- a shopping center in

17· ·Wayne County.· As she approached to make a purchase at a

18· ·produce store, she was approached by a young woman with

19· ·a clipboard that stopped her and offered to help her

20· ·register to vote.· And she indicated, "Well, I'm already

21· ·registered in Oakland County."· And the woman said,

22· ·"Well, that's okay.· If you just fill out this change of

23· ·address form here, you can also vote in Wayne County,

24· ·and we need your representation here."· And she said,

25· ·"Well, gee, that would be voting twice."· And the woman

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·1· ·said, "Well, yeah, the laws have changed.· It's okay."

·2· ·So she realized immediately that this was a violation of

·3· ·the law.· And when she reported it to us in the group,

·4· ·we were all alarmed, and we decided to team up together

·5· ·and help to report it to all the police agencies, you

·6· ·know, the -- the local police in -- in -- in Dearborn

·7· ·Heights where this incident occurred, to -- to the FBI,

·8· ·the DOJ, the -- the Secretary of State investigative

·9· ·offices, and -- and so on.

10· · · · · · And what we discovered was a complete

11· ·disinterest in doing any investigation of this incident.

12· ·We documented it with 32 pages of -- of -- of -- of

13· ·factual information including license plate of the -- of

14· ·the woman who was collecting these -- looking to collect

15· ·these registrations for -- for voters who are willing to

16· ·vote twice.· So our election process is not secure.

17· · · · · · And this shows here a disrespect for the voter.

18· ·And I urge you to withdraw this proposed change in the

19· ·rules.· And I thank you for listening.

20· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you for your comment.· Next I

21· ·have Monica Yatooma.· Apologies Monica, if I said your

22· ·last name wrong.

23· · · · · · MS. MONICA YATOOMA:· No.· Actually, also for

24· ·the first time you got it great.

25· · · · · · MS. BOES:· All right.· Phonetic for the win, I

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·1· ·guess.

·2· · · · · · · · · · ·MONICA YATOOMA

·3· · · · · · MS. MONICA YATOOMA:· Yeah; yeah.· Okay.· Good

·4· ·morning.· Thank you for conducting this hearing and

·5· ·allowing public input on these critical rules.· My name

·6· ·is Monica Yatooma, and I reside in Commerce Township.

·7· · · · · · I oppose the proposed rule set 2025-13, and I'm

·8· ·here to address the serious legal problems with rule two

·9· ·concerning reliable information.

10· · · · · · Rule two violates multiple federal laws.· It

11· ·violates the National Voter Registration Act,

12· ·specifically 52 USC 20507(a)(4), which requires states

13· ·to make a reasonable effort to remove ineligible voters

14· ·by categorically excluding proven databases like

15· ·CheckMyVote.org, Ancestry.com, and FindAGrave.com, and

16· ·making clerk investigations optional rather than

17· ·mandatory.· This rule directly contradicts federal law.

18· ·The rule also violates the Health America Vote Act, 52

19· ·USC 21083(8)(4), which requires accurate statewide

20· ·databases.· The subjective case-by-case standards and

21· ·optional investigations create the very inconsistencies

22· ·HAVA was designed to prevent.

23· · · · · · Under Michigan law, rule two violates MCL

24· ·168.509a(a), by restricting clerk discretion to use

25· ·reliable information sources.· It exceeds the Secretary

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·1· ·of State's rulemaking authority under MCL 168.31a.· The

·2· ·election assistance commission recommends using the

·3· ·United States Postal Service change of address data,

·4· ·death records and cross-state verification programs,

·5· ·exactly the tools this rule prohibits, ironically, since

·6· ·CheckMyVote.org uses data directly from the Secretary of

·7· ·State's own voter rolls.· So calling it unreliable is

·8· ·essentially admitting that Michigan's official voter

·9· ·database is unreliable.

10· · · · · · I urge you to reject rule two to ensure

11· ·compliance with federal law and maintain election

12· ·integrity.· I urge you to reject rule two and protect

13· ·the integrity of Michigan's legislative process.

14· ·Overall, these rule changes violate federal law.· They

15· ·exceed state authority, and they undermine election

16· ·integrity.· I urge you to reject this entire rule set

17· ·and work with the legislature to address any genuine

18· ·election administration concerns through proper legal

19· ·channels.· Thank you for your time and consideration.

20· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· It looks like I might

21· ·have one more person.· While we're getting that person

22· ·entered into the record, is there anyone present who has

23· ·not signed in that is wishing to speak?· All right.

24· ·Seeing none, I have Thomas Nemcek.

25· · · · · · MR. THOMAS NEMCEK:· Close.

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·1· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Sorry.

·2· · · · · · · · · · · THOMAS NEMCEK

·3· · · · · · MR. THOMAS NEMCEK:· Thank you for allowing us

·4· ·to speak on this proposal.· I appreciate your time. I

·5· ·am speaking in opposition to this proposal.· I'm sorry.

·6· ·I forgot to give my name.· Thomas Nemcek, that's

·7· ·N-e-m-c-e-k.· Nemcek@yahoo.com.

·8· · · · · · I have worked as a certified election inspector

·9· ·for many years, many elections, and I -- I see no

10· ·benefit to this proposal.· The clerks struggle, as it

11· ·is, with data integrity.· Our QVF is horribly

12· ·adulterated.· And I -- I don't blame the current

13· ·Secretary of State.· It's been like that since 2017.

14· ·There -- there's numerous reasons for that, but I don't

15· ·see these -- this proposal increasing the

16· ·transparency, the auditability, or the -- the

17· ·cleanliness of our QVF.· I think this will only add to

18· ·the frustration by voters in this state and will cause

19· ·distrust of the voters in this state.

20· · · · · · I would also like to note that these proposals

21· ·were not posted on the Secretary of State's website.· It

22· ·was posted under the LARA website, which I find very,

23· ·very unusual.· It made it very difficult to even find

24· ·this proposal at all.

25· · · · · · I appreciate your time.· Thank you, and have a

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·1· ·great day.

·2· · · · · · MS. BOES:· Thank you.· I will note for the

·3· ·record that they are posted on the Secretary of State's

·4· ·website.· If you go to Michigan.gov/elections, scroll to

·5· ·the bottom of the page, there's a section with the

·6· ·administrative rule.· I -- I understand that there's a

·7· ·lot of stuff on the one page, so...

·8· · · · · · Anyone else wishing to speak?· If there are no

·9· ·further comments, at this time I hereby declare the

10· ·hearing closed.· Any additional comments regarding the

11· ·proposed rules that you may wish to share must be

12· ·submitted in writing to the Bureau of Elections either

13· ·at [email protected] or PO Box 20126,

14· ·Lansing, Michigan 48901.

15· · · · · · The public comment period will remain open

16· ·until 5:00 p.m. today for written comments.· This

17· ·hearing is closed.· The current time is 10:29 a.m.

18· ·Thank you all for coming.

19· · · · · · (Proceedings concluded at 10:29 a.m.)

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·1· · · · · · · · · · · CERTIFICATE OF RECORDER

·2

·3

·4

·5· · · · · · · · ·I, Marcy A. Klingshirn, a Certified Electronic

·6· ·Recorder and Notary Public within and for the State of

·7· ·Michigan do hereby certify:

·8

·9· · · · · · · · ·That this transcript, consisting of 43 pages,

10· ·is a complete, true, and correct record of the testimony

11· ·given in this hearing on September 5th, 2025.

12

13· · · · · · · · ·I further certify that I am not related to any

14· ·of the parties to this action by blood or marriage and that I

15· ·am not interested in the outcome of this matter, financial or

16· ·otherwise.

17

18· · · · · · · · ·IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand

19· ·this 16th day of September 2025.

20

21

· · · · · · · · · · · _____________________________________

22· · · · · · · · · · Marcy A. Klingshirn, CER 6924

· · · · · · · · · · · Notary Public, State of Michigan

23· · · · · · · · · · County of Eaton

· · · · · · · · · · · My Commission Expires:· March 30, 2029

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