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STATE OF MICHIGAN  
DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS  
BUREAU OF PROFESSIONAL LICENSING  
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PUBLIC HEARING  
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WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 10, 2025  
AT ABOUT 9:00 A.M.  
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G. MENNEN WILLIAMS BUILDING AUDITORIUM  
525 W. OTTAWA STREET  
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LANSING, MICHIGAN  
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RE: Counseling - General Rules (MOAHR #2025-05 LR)  
Pharmacy - General Rules (MOAHR #2025-28 LR)  
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16 HEARING FACILITATOR:  
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JENNIFER SHALTRY  
Bureau of Professional Licensing  
611 W. Ottawa Street  
Lansing, Michigan 48909  
ALSO PRESENT: Kerry Przybylo  
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24 REPORTED BY: Lori Anne Penn, CSR-1315  
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I N D E X  
2 Opening Statement - Jennifer Shaltry  
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4 COMMENTS:  
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Leang Mey Tao - Pharmacy  
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7 Closing Statement - Jennifer Shaltry  
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Lansing, Michigan  
Wednesday, September 10, 2025  
At 9:00 a.m.  
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(Public hearing commenced pursuant to due notice.)  
MS. SHALTRY: Okay. Good morning. We're  
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calling this hearing to order at 9:00 a.m. My name is  
Jennifer Shaltry, I am a Departmental Specialist for the  
Bureau of Professional Licensing in the Department of  
Licensing and Regulatory Affairs, and I will be  
conducting the hearing today.  
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This is a public hearing on the proposed  
administrative rules titled "Counseling - General Rules"  
and "Pharmacy - General Rules". We are conducting this  
hearing under the authority of the Administrative  
Procedures Act, Public Act 306 of 1969, on behalf of the  
Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs, Bureau of  
Professional Licensing.  
We are calling this hearing to order at  
9:00 a.m. on September 10, 2025, in the Auditorium of the  
G. Mennen Williams Building, 525 West Ottawa Street,  
Lansing, Michigan. Publication of the notice of public  
hearing was in three newspapers of general circulation,  
including the Flint Journal, the Grand Rapids Press, and  
the Escanaba Daily Press, all on August 28, 2025, as well  
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as in the Michigan Register, Issue #15, published on  
September 1, 2025.  
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We are here today to receive your  
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comments on the proposed rules. If you wish to speak,  
please make sure you have signed in and said that you  
wish to speak. You may use the cards supplied for this  
purpose. I will organize the cards by rule set so that  
the comments for that profession are in a group together  
in the transcript. If you would like to testify and have  
not signed in, please do so now. For those of you who do  
not wish to sign in with a card, you may speak -- excuse  
me, sorry, my text jumped around -- so if you do not wish  
to use a card, you may speak once we have exhausted the  
stack of cards that you give to me.  
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If you have comments, please make sure  
that they relate directly to the proposed rules. If you  
have questions about the rules, please include your  
questions as part of your testimony for the Department's  
review. If you have suggested changes to the proposed  
rules, please include the specific reasons why the  
changes would be in the public interest.  
For the record, when you testify, please  
give us your name by spelling your name and the  
organization, if any, that you may be speaking for today.  
This will help the Department prepare the hearing record  
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and that will go before the Boards. You can give written  
statements directly to me at the table. The Department  
will also accept written statements emailed or postmarked  
until 5:00 p.m. today.  
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The Department staff from the Bureau of  
Professional Licensing also includes Kerry Przybylo,  
Manager of the Boards and Committees Section.  
All right. So do we have any cards?  
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(Document provided to Ms. Shaltry.)  
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Did you wish to make an oral statement,  
too?  
LEANG MEY TAO: Good morning everyone.  
MS. SHALTRY: Can you give me just a  
moment. I just want to clarify that this comment, we're  
taking comments for the "Pharmacy - General Rules" at  
this time. And please go ahead.  
LEANG MEY TAO: Thank you. Hi. My name  
is Leang Mey Tao, and my --  
COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry, you're going  
to have to speak up.  
LEANG MEY TAO: My name is Leang Mey Tao,  
L-e-a-n-g M-e-y T-a-o. On behalf of the Michigan  
Pharmacists Association, I thank you for this opportunity  
to provide public comment on the Board of Pharmacy -  
General Rules. The proposed changes in this revision of  
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the rules are vital to ensuring access to critical  
(inaudible) --  
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COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. Speak  
towards me.  
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LEANG MEY TAO: The proposed changes in  
this revision of the rules are vital to ensuring access  
to critical healthcare services through pharmacy  
providers. Additionally, we have included comments on  
some areas of the rules that have not been revised in  
this draft in hopes that, should it be possible, such  
changes could be adopted following the public comment  
period. If not, we hope that our remarks will be  
considered for future revisions in the future.  
Referring to Rule 5, MPA has received  
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reports of inspectors claiming that inspections conducted  
on licensees in response to complaints are alleged to be  
routine. This violates the licensee's right to have  
legal counsel present to adequately defend themselves  
against accusations brought against them in a public  
complaint.  
We propose that there should be language  
introduced in this rule to require a notice to an  
applicant or license holder of a disciplinary  
investigation and notice of the right to an attorney  
present during a disciplinary investigation.  
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We propose the following subsections be  
added:  
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(2) If the inspection is initiated in response to a  
complaint or is part of a pending or potential  
disciplinary investigation, the applicant or  
licensee must be provided written or verbal  
notice that the inspection is investigatory in  
nature unless, in the judgment of the  
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department, such notice would reasonably be  
expected to impede the investigation. The  
notice must identify the general nature of the  
complaint or issue under review and inform the  
licensee of their right to consult with legal  
counsel.  
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(3) Licensees and applicants subject to an  
investigatory inspection may, at their  
discretion, have an attorney or other  
authorized representative present during any  
interview or questioning conducted on site,  
provided such presence does not materially  
interfere with the conduct of the inspection.  
Referring to Rule 7, an agent of a  
licensed health professional, rather than the health  
professional themselves, may obtain consent and document  
consent according to the proposed subrules (1) and (2);  
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example, a pharmacy technician or an unlicensed pharmacy  
clerk.  
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We propose the following amendments:  
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(1) A pharmacist, pharmacy technician, or agent of  
the pharmacist shall obtain consent from the  
patient for treatment before providing a  
telehealth service under Section 16284 of the  
Code.  
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(2) A pharmacist, pharmacy technician, or agent of  
the pharmacist shall keep proof of consent for  
telehealth treatment in the patient's  
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up-to-date medical record and satisfy Section  
16213 of the Code.  
Referring to Rule 31a, MPA has recently  
been aware of circumstances where the Board has approved  
a waiver for a remote pharmacy in a community that was  
being serviced by at least two other fully licensed  
pharmacies. We have concerns that, due to the nature of  
the application process, the affected pharmacies had no  
opportunities to provide the Board with comment related  
to the necessity of a remote pharmacy or any supposed  
unmet needs within that community.  
We propose the following amendment to the  
existing language to assure that all perspectives in a  
community where a remote pharmacy is established to  
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verify that any claimed benefits of implementing a remote  
location to that community. We propose the new  
subsection (3):  
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Upon receipt of an application for a remote  
pharmacy, the department shall provide written  
notice to any licensed pharmacies within 10 miles of  
the proposed remote pharmacy.  
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Referring to Rule 81, MPA applauds the  
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Board's inclusion of an entity accredited by the ACPE  
with the understanding that this is intended to capture  
training provided as a part of a curriculum delivered by  
an accredited college of pharmacy.  
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Entities that provide CE or certificate  
programs accredited by ACPE are not themselves  
accredited, rather they are organizations that provide  
courses which are accredited by ACPE. This distinction  
is important for ensuring that common certification  
programs utilized by practicing professionals are  
recognized; for example, the APhA Immunization  
Certification Program.  
The recommended language referring to  
Rule 81:  
Before ordering and administering a qualified  
immunizing agent under Section 17724 of the Code, a  
pharmacist shall successfully complete a training  
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course on the administration of vaccines that is  
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provided by an entity or a course accredited by the  
ACPE.  
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Next referring to Rule 81a, the language  
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as currently presented provides an opportunity for an  
unaccredited or otherwise validated employer-based  
training or certificate program might be considered  
appropriate for the delivery of this service. This  
differs significantly from the provisions for  
Immunizations and Hormonal Contraception Prescribing.  
MPA prescribes -- recommends the following language:  
(2) Any of the following is acceptable to meet the  
requirements of subrule (1) of this rule:  
(a) Training completed as part of a  
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professional degree from a school of  
pharmacy accredited by the APE.  
(b) A training course or certificate program  
that is provided by an entity or a program  
accredited by the ACPE.  
Next referring to Rule 81b, entities that  
provide training, CE, or certificate programs accredited  
by the ACPE are not themselves accredited, rather they  
are organizations that provide courses which are  
accredited by ACPE. This distinction is important for  
ensuring that common certificate programs utilized by  
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pharmacy professionals are recognized.  
The recommended language is:  
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Before issuing a prescription for a contraceptive  
under Section 17744g of the Code, a pharmacist shall  
successfully complete a training course on  
prescribing and dispensing contraceptives that is  
provided by an entity or a course accredited by the  
ACPE.  
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Referring to Rule 81c, while MPA  
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understands that much of the language in this rule has  
been composed to conform to statutory requirements, we  
feel that some of the phrasing may lead to  
misinterpretation, particularly around the referral  
process.  
We propose the following alternative  
language to clarify the nature and intent of the referral  
process that occurs subsequent to a patient receiving a  
prescription:  
(b) Upon issuing a prescription for a  
contraceptive, the pharmacist shall refer the  
patient to another [sic] patient's primary care  
physician or another appropriate licensed  
professional, health professional if:  
(i) The patient has not had a physical exam  
within the past 12 months.  
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(ii) The patient is due for a routine health  
evaluation.  
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(iii) The pharmacist does not issue a  
prescription for hormonal contraceptives.  
We feel that these changes capture the  
same intentions of the proposed language while  
simplifying and clarifying the conditions for a referral.  
Additionally, we would like to see the  
following adjustments made to 338.581c(b)(iv) & (v) by  
making these their own subsections set apart from the  
referral criteria:  
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(c) Upon issuing a prescription for a  
contraceptive, the pharmacist or an agent of  
the pharmacist shall provide the patient with a  
written or electronic record of the prescribed  
contraceptive for which the patient is issued a  
prescription. A prescription receipt or a note  
in an electronic health record or a pharmacy  
management system shall be sufficient to comply  
with this subrule.  
(d) A pharmacist issuing a prescription for a  
contraceptive shall either:  
(1) Dispense the prescribed contraceptive as  
soon as practicable.  
(2) Transmit the prescription to a pharmacy of  
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the patient's choice for dispensing, if  
requested.  
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These changes accomplish the goals of the  
proposed language while recognizing the realities of  
current workflow and health communication practices.  
Referring to Rule 81d, MPA applauds the  
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Board and the Department's approach to the issue of the  
self-screening risk assessment form by allowing the  
flexibility of individual practices to craft their own  
forms while setting minimum standards.  
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In order to remain consistency with  
updated standards while avoiding a prescriptive set of  
standards for the self-screening risk assessment tool,  
MPA proposes the following alternate language:  
(1) A pharmacist is prohibited from issuing a  
prescription for a contraceptive to an  
individual unless the individual has completed  
a self-screening assessment tool that assesses  
patient eligibility in a manner consistent with  
the most recently available Medical Eligibility  
Criteria for Contraceptive Use from the Centers  
for Disease Control and Prevention.  
(2) A pharmacist may utilize a form or methodology  
for assessing a patient that exceeds the  
standards set by the most recently available  
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Medical Eligibility Criteria for Contraceptive  
Use from the Centers for Disease Control and  
Prevention should, in their professional  
judgment, they deem a more strenuous  
methodology appropriate for their patient or  
practice setting.  
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MPA further suggests, should this  
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language be adopted, that Appendix A be stricken from the  
proposed rule revisions.  
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Thank you again for this opportunity.  
That concludes our comment.  
MS. SHALTRY: Thank you. At this time,  
are there any other comments on the "Pharmacy - General  
Rules"? (No response.)  
Okay. Hearing none. We will take  
comment on the "Counseling - General Rules". Does anyone  
wish to speak on the "Counseling - General Rules"? (No  
response.)  
Okay. If there are no other people who  
wish to speak at this time, we will take a short recess.  
So we're off the record at 9:15.  
(Recess from 9:15 a.m. until 9:25 a.m.)  
MS. SHALTRY: It's 9:25 a.m. and we're  
back on the record. If there are no further comments at  
this time, I hereby declare this hearing closed. The  
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record will remain open until 5:00 p.m. today for any  
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other comments you may wish to share about the rules.  
Thank you all for coming.  
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(Public hearing concluded at 9:25 a.m.)  
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1 STATE OF MICHIGAN )  
)
2 COUNTY OF MACOMB )  
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I, Lori Anne Penn, certify that this  
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transcript consisting of 16 pages is a complete, true,  
and correct record of the proceedings held in the  
captioned matter on Wednesday, September 10, 2025.  
I further certify that I am not  
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responsible for any copies of this transcript not made  
under my direction or control and bearing my original  
signature.  
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I also certify that I am not a relative  
or employee of or an attorney for a party; or a relative  
or employee of an attorney for a party; or financially  
interested in the action.  
September 11, 2025 ____________  
Date  
Lori Ann
Notary Pigan  
My Commission Expires June 15, 2031  
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