FIRE FIGHTER TRAINING DIVISION  
ADMINISTRATIVE RULES PUBLIC HEARING  
March 24, 2021  
Prepared by  
depos@networkreporting.com  
Phone: 800.632.2720  
Fax: 800.968.8653  
www.networkreporting.com  
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FIRE FIGHTER TRAINING DIVISION ADMINISTRATIVE RULES PUBLIC HEARING  
March 24, 2021  
STATE OF MICHIGAN  
LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS - BUREAU OF FIRE SERVICES  
FIRE FIGHTER TRAINING DIVISION  
ADMINISTRATIVE RULES PUBLIC HEARING  
Bureau of Fire Services  
Via Zoom Video Conference  
Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 11:00 a.m.  
Members Present: Ann Searles, Bureau of Fire Services Deputy  
Director  
Andrea Keown, Bureau of Fire Services  
Kevin Schlmeyer, Michigan Fire Marshall  
Robert Stokes, Regional Coordinator FFTD  
Dan Hammerberg, Regional Coordinator FFTD  
Also Present:  
Hollie Metts, Assistant to the Michigan Fire  
Marshall  
RECORDED BY - Anna Burns, CER 9214  
Certified Electronic Recorder  
Network Reporting Corporation  
Firm Registration Number 8151  
1-800-632-2720  
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FIRE FIGHTER TRAINING DIVISION ADMINISTRATIVE RULES PUBLIC HEARING  
March 24, 2021  
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TABLE OF CONTENTS  
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Call to Order . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4  
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Regular Public Meeting. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6  
Kyle Svoboda . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7  
Chris Mantels. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9  
Shaun Abbey. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12  
Mark Fankhauser. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13  
Michael McLeieer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14  
Mark Docherty. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16  
Jack, Johnson, Jr. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18  
Richard Clark. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18  
Robert Cairnduff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18  
Alex Koshorek. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19  
Justin Fox . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20  
Bryce Tracy. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20  
Adam Carroll . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21  
Matthew Sahr . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24  
Christopher Dean . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25  
Jesse Marcotte . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26  
Nicholas Vaught. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29  
Kevin Edmond . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29  
Eric Thomas. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30  
Steve Heim . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31  
Chris Krotche. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33  
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FIRE FIGHTER TRAINING DIVISION ADMINISTRATIVE RULES PUBLIC HEARING  
March 24, 2021  
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Mark Cleveland . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34  
Jim Daveluy. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36  
Shawn Allen. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37  
Kevin Retzloff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37  
Mike Vogt. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37  
Liam Karroll . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38  
John Polzin. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41  
Chris Lince. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41  
Doug Bourgeois . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41  
Rob Scott. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42  
Andy Steeby. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43  
Sean Canto . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44  
Joe Grutza . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46  
Charles Pichan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46  
Mike Harper. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46  
Roger Bebeau . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 47  
Nicolas Gettel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 48  
Josh Gray. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 48  
Chris Coughlin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49  
Christopher Love . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51  
Anthony Watts. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51  
Steve Mojzuk . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52  
Jeff Friedenstab . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52  
Jamal Mickles. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52  
Jeffrey Forbes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 53  
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FIRE FIGHTER TRAINING DIVISION ADMINISTRATIVE RULES PUBLIC HEARING  
March 24, 2021  
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Robert Massey. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 54  
Timothy Seal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 54  
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Robert Smith . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56  
Brian Rayle. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57  
James Edwards. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57  
Stacy Taylor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57  
Donald Bigger. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58  
Adjourn/Adjournment . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60  
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EXHIBIT INDEX  
PAGE  
Exhibit 1 marked . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60  
(Notice of Public Hearing)  
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FIRE FIGHTER TRAINING DIVISION ADMINISTRATIVE RULES PUBLIC HEARING  
March 24, 2021  
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Via Zoom Video Conference  
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Wednesday, March 24, 2021 - 11:00 a.m.  
MS. SEARLES: Good morning. My name is Ann  
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Searles, and I am the Deputy Director for the Bureau of Fire  
Services in the Department of Licensing and Regulatory  
Affairs. I will be conducting the hearing today. This is a  
public hearing on the proposed administrative rules  
entitled, "Fire Fighters Training Council General Rules."  
We are conducting the hearing as required by the  
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administrative procedures Act to allow the public to comment  
on the proposed changes to this rule set.  
As with all other public hearings on draft rule  
sets, the only items discussed during this hearing will be  
the proposed changes to the rule set. This hearing will not  
be covering any questions or discussions on any other  
issues. We are calling this hearing to order at 11:00 a.m.  
on March 24th, 2021 via Zoom to comply with the statutory  
requirement. The Notice of Public Hearing was published in  
three newspapers of general circulation; The Grand Rapids  
Press, The Oakland Press, The Mining Journal, all on March  
1st, 2021, as well as with the Michigan Register, Issue  
3-2021, published on March 1st, 2021.  
All comments should relate directly to the  
proposed rules. We will take comments in the following  
manner: For those wishing -- or using the video conference  
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FIRE FIGHTER TRAINING DIVISION ADMINISTRATIVE RULES PUBLIC HEARING  
March 24, 2021  
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portion, please use the "Raise your hand" feature in Zoom.  
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Let me share my screen to show you how to do that. Can  
everybody see my screen?  
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(Shares document via video)  
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MS. SEARLES: Sorry about that. Hold on. Let me  
try that again. Can everybody see my screen that shows the  
participants down at the bottom? Andrea, can you see that?  
MS. KEOWN: (Shaking head negatively)  
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MS. SEARLES: No? Well, I guess it's not going to  
show. What you will do is look down at the bottom of the  
screen; it shows "participants." You will click on the  
participants located in the menu bar there, and then the  
option to "raise your hand" is available at the bottom of  
the participant list. If you don't see this option, you  
will need to expand the participants list. I will call on  
individuals to speak, and they will be un-muted at that  
time.  
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For participants that are available only by  
telephone, after the video participants have finished, we  
will call off the last four digits of your phone number, and  
we will ask you if you wish to make a comment. If you have  
a comment but do not wish to speak, please note that the  
department will also accept written statements, emailed or  
postmarked, to LARA-BFS@michigan.gov until 5:00 p.m. today.  
The Bureau will not accept public comments on the Rules in  
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FIRE FIGHTER TRAINING DIVISION ADMINISTRATIVE RULES PUBLIC HEARING  
March 24, 2021  
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the chat function in Zoom. If you have previously submitted  
comments in writing to the Bureau, it is not necessary for  
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your to repeat your comments on the record today. Comments  
made in writing will be received and considered by the  
department in the same manner as comments made during the  
public hearing. Those making comments during this hearing  
should clearly -- should speak clearly and slowly, and say  
and spell your name, and advise us if you are speaking on  
behalf of an organization.  
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Each person will have the opportunity to speak  
only once, and comments will be limited to three minutes per  
person. The speaker will be verbally stopped at three  
minutes -- at the three-minute mark, and we will move on to  
the next speaker. The department staff and the Bureau of  
Fire Services includes myself and Andrea Keown.